In this episode of Tailgate Talks, I sit down with M.J. James, author of Heal the Hustle, for an honest and timely conversation about burnout, productivity culture, and what it really means to live—and lead—well.

Many of us were taught that hustle equals success. Work harder. Push longer. Rest later. But what happens when that mindset starts to cost us our health, relationships, creativity, and joy?

M.J. challenges the traditional hustle narrative and offers a healthier, more sustainable way forward—especially for leaders, high performers, and purpose-driven professionals who care deeply about their work.

Together, we talk about:

• How hustle culture quietly leads to burnout

• The difference between ambition and exhaustion

• Why rest is not a reward—it's a requirement

• Reframing productivity to include health and humanity

• Practical ways leaders can model balance without losing effectiveness

• How healing the hustle creates stronger teams, better decisions, and longer careers

This conversation is especially relevant for public servants, park and recreation professionals, nonprofit leaders, and anyone who feels called to serve—but doesn't want to lose themselves in the process.

If you've ever felt tired, stretched thin, or wondered, "Is this pace really sustainable?"—this episode is for you.

M.J. James is the author of Heal the Hustle and a passionate advocate for redefining success in a world that glorifies burnout. Through her work, she helps individuals and organizations rethink productivity, prioritize well-being, and build lives rooted in purpose—not constant pressure.

🔗 Learn more about M.J. and her work: mjjames.com

donald.forgione@gmail.com

tailgate-talks.com

Guest: Lauren McMillan, PhD, RPA – Cultural Resource Manager, Virginia State Parks Lauren.McMillan@dcr.virginia.gov
Host: Donald Forgione donald.forgione@gmail.com

In this episode of Tailgate Talks, Donald Forgione sits down with Lauren McMillan, the Cultural Resource Manager from Virginia State Parks, to talk about what cultural resources really are—and why they matter far beyond compliance, checklists, or old buildings.

This conversation explores the humanity behind cultural resources: the people, stories, and lived experiences embedded in landscapes, structures, and artifacts across our parks. Lauren shares her journey from academia into state parks, how teaching shapes her work today, and why helping staff understand the why behind cultural resource protection changes everything—from decision-making to visitor experience.

This episode is a thoughtful reminder that parks don't just protect land—they protect stories.

• What cultural resources actually include (and common misconceptions)

• Moving from compliance-driven preservation to meaningful connection

• The role of cultural resource managers in everyday park decisions

• Balancing preservation, safety, and public use

• Why physical places help us connect to the humanity of the past

• How understanding cultural resources strengthens park staff and visitor experience

• Cultural resources aren't just "old things"—they are evidence of real people

• Why interpretation and preservation go hand in hand

• How cultural resource awareness empowers non-specialist park staff

• The danger of treating preservation as a checklist instead of a responsibility

• Protecting stories, not just structures

• Park, recreation, and public land professionals

• Interpreters, rangers, maintenance staff, and managers

• Leaders making decisions that affect historic and cultural sites

• Anyone who believes parks are about people as much as places

When we understand the stories embedded in our parks, we don't just protect resources—we honor the people who came before us and enrich the experience of those who come after.

Guest: Brent Leisure, Director of Texas State Parks (ret)

Ethics in state parks is rarely about clear-cut right and wrong. More often, leaders find themselves navigating gray areas—where policies, public expectations, resource protection, staff morale, and political realities collide.

In this episode of Tailgate Talks, Donald sits down with Brent Leisure for a thoughtful, practical conversation about ethical leadership in state parks. Together, they explore how ethics shows up in everyday decisions—far beyond policy manuals and audit reports—and why culture, consistency, and courage matter more than titles.

This episode speaks directly to park professionals who are balancing limited resources, public trust, internal pressures, and stewardship responsibilities. Whether you're a new supervisor or a seasoned leader, this conversation offers tools to help you lead with integrity when the path forward isn't obvious.

• The difference between ethics and morals in leadership

• Why most ethical challenges live in the gray area, not black and white

• How small compromises can quietly shape organizational culture

• The role of consistency and fairness in building trust with staff

• Why "this is how we've always done it" can be a warning sign

• Navigating ethical decisions under pressure from politics, public opinion, and limited resources

• How leaders can model ethical behavior—even when it's uncomfortable

• Practical ways to prepare yourself and your team for ethical decision-making before problems arise

• Ethical leadership is less about rules and more about daily choices

• Culture is shaped by what leaders tolerate, not just what they say

• Transparency and accountability protect both the organization and the leader

• When leaders do the right thing early, they avoid much harder decisions later

• Park Rangers and frontline staff

• Supervisors, managers, and administrators

• Emerging leaders preparing for greater responsibility

• Anyone serving in public lands, conservation, or recreation

🎧 Listen now wherever you get your podcasts
If this episode resonates, please share it with a colleague, mentor, or emerging leader—and keep the conversation going around the tailgate.