It’s been a rough few weeks, especially in the city of Minneapolis, which saw two citizens engaged in protest gunned down in the streets. Nancy and Sarah talk about how much has gone wrong, including statements from federal officials that directly contradict video evidence, a hiring spree at ICE that seems to have left many without training, and creeping paranoia in Minnesota and beyond. As Trump begins to course-correct, following pushback from his own side, we wonder if Minneapolis could be a turning point for an administration that has gone too far.

Also discussed:

* How’s the snow?

* 2020 protests versus 2026 protests

* Nancy’s daughter forbids her from going to Minneapolis

* “The city is a giant eyeball”

* Bye-bye, Greg Bovino

* Is Kristi Noem on her way out?

* Sarah tells Nancy about watching Alex Honnold climb Taipei 101; Nancy spazzes out

* Layoffs coming to WaPo, which, frankly, Nancy could be a little nicer about

* Nancy and Sarah’s favorite Instagram-er reacts to Alex Honnold

* Amanda Seyfried and her “moon-maiden eyes”

* Holland, England, whatever

* Lewis Pullman, flirty birdie

Plus, the time Nancy shimmied up an elevator shaft, the time Sarah thought she might fall into an abyss while rock climbing, Nancy mixes up Hemingway titles, and much more!

REMINDER: Monthly Zoom hang is this Sunday! 8pm ET/5pm PT. Link sent day-of.

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Nancy and Sarah speak with Ellie Avishai, who offers an inside look at how the ambitious project to build a bold new university — based on liberalism and open dialogue — fell victim to some of the same censorious behavior it sought to oust. The University of Austin was announced in 2021 with big names attached, perhaps none bigger (or more controversial) than Bari Weiss. Touting itself as a “coalition of the sane” at a time when college campuses seemed to be veering off-course, UATX was an inspiration to many, including Avishai, who joined forces with UATX through her own project, the Mill Institute, to help educators foster more open dialogue in classrooms. As a recent Politico story lays out, things did not go as planned.

We talk about why a modest social media post led to Avishai getting booted from UATX and how the dogma of woke is transforming into the dogma of anti-woke, not just at one university but throughout culture.

Also discussed:

* How education departments got flooded with reductive social justice ideas

* The prescriptive, anti-meaning-making stuff that went on in the social justice movement…

* “… to be clear, this wasn’t just Harvard.”

* Also: Harvard is pretty awesome!

* Intellectual “space spaces” versus psychological “safe spaces”

* “If you can’t teach Plato in a college course, you’re out of your mind.”

* #MeToo controversy at UATX

* How do you prove the strength of your core ideas if you won’t let them be tested?

* Where is Bari Weiss in all this?

* When open dialogue is perceived as weak sauce

* Cannibal-Americans?

Plus, ‘70s football greatness, three books to read aloud in bed, the phenomenon that is Heated Rivalry, and much more!

Emily Zanotti is a writer, a Catholic, a political operative, a mother of three, and a professional chicken tender, which is a thing. Nancy and Sarah know her from Twitter, where she is a great follow, but they’re taking this relationship to the next level. Podcast guest! The three talk about the mental health benefits of putting hands in the dirt, how Emily came to define herself as conservative (and what happened when the conservative movement shifted from her), all those female troubles women rarely talk about, and the booming fertility-industrial complex.

Also discussed:

* Chickens and gunshots

* “My goal is to not be a hypocrite”

* The intellectual side of Catholicism

* The beauty of having bees come to die in your garden

* “2016 broke a lot of people.”

* The Greeks identified endometriosis, but Western medicine didn’t come up with a treatment until… last year?

* Infertility as a Catholic …

* The mirage of egg freezing

* Storage fees for zygotes

* Endometrial tissue in women’s … brains??

* Clocking your kids’ personalities while they’re in utero

* Is misogyny what drives laws that allow women to die on the floor of ERs from ectopic pregnancies, or nah?

Plus, Japanese New Wave vinyl! Werewolf romance fiction! Forty years and we still haven’t gotten over David Bowie’s pants in Labyrinth! And much more.

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The end of 2025 is here, whether we like it or not. Nancy and Sarah celebrate with a year-end episode that includes a pop quiz, their favorite culture recommendations, and even a few resolutions. Have and attend more parties! Don’t pay attention to nonsense! It’s an annual look-back with cameo appearances by Paul Thomas Anderson, Sean Combs, Sydney Sweeney, Charlie Kirk, Billy Joel, Chappell Roan, old classic books, and the AI future that awaits us.

Also discussed:

* FaceTime doesn’t work in Australia?

* Hard times for America’s bourbon industry

* Nancy doesn’t flunk the pop quiz!

* Sarah favorite 2025 pop song is actually from …

* Nancy explains VistaVision; gets it wrong

* Sarah’s love-hate thing with Yorgos Lanthimos

* Olivia Colman gives an all-time performance

* The time-weathered face of Ethan Hawke

* American Studies is a bangin’ major

* A John Travolta gifting story

* Whoodoggie, did things get hot on the set of Cleopatra

Plus, Sarah invents Drinking School, Nancy accidentally chugs weed lemonade, we all have Moby Dicks to climb, and much more!

The great Kat Rosenfield, Free Press columnist and novelist, joins Nancy and Sarah for a very special Christmas-themed conversation that includes: a new holiday short story by Kat, the whole man-keeping/emotional labor debate, the role dirty socks can play in the unraveling of a marriage, and what it means to “get what you deserve.”

Plus, each of the ladies builds her Mount Rushmore of Hotness, but only ONE MAN makes the cut on every woman’s list. Who will it be??

Also discussed:

* Will people ever stop freaking out about Bari Weiss?

* “I don’t want a birthday party!”

* Sarah would like to man-keep, thanks

* Kat and Nancy have thoughts on pie crust

* Epstein: Is the media trying to make “fetch” happen?

* Nobody likes the word “deserve.”

* Crying in trees, sleeping in trees …

* A totally unironic Leo DiCaprio calendar

Plus, sorrow over Ben Sasse’s announcement that he has terminal cancer, animatronic milk in Connecticut, what Kat texted her husband after watching that scorching “Wuthering Heights” trailer, and much more!

It’s Christmas and Kat has a special gift for you, if you’ll just step right into this post office, so cozy, so inviting, what could go wrong?

All we want for Christmas …

Andy Mills, audio storyteller extraordinaire, joins Nancy and Sarah to talk about the “AI hinge moment” we’re living in, the subject of his new podcast “The Last Invention.” How scared should we be? Let’s discuss. They talk creative process, journalism’s inflection point and what was lost and gained in “the war of public shaming.” Plus: Books books books!

Also discussed:

* Gotta love a rotund tree

* “The thing about when you’re making your sauna …”

* The country mouse/city mouse ideal

* Are we really living in “unprecedented times”?

* The secrets of how Andy builds a podcast

* The trend to exaggerate victim status is REALLY UNHEALTHY

* Bringing down a deer with a bow-and-arrow is harder than you think

* When pain comes your way, don’t add regret to it

* The Wall Street Journal is crushing it

* Make centricism sexy again!

* One was joyous, one was meh: Apple vs. Free Press holiday parties

* Andy explains frog embryology to Nancy

* Andy and Sarah are Magnolia stans

* Alexander Hamilton got what he deserved

* Demon Copperhead: Even funnier than Moby Dick!

* “There’s so much comfort in history.”

* WANTED: Presidential biography recommendations

Plus, three cheers for Bari Weiss and building new media, everyone loves Anna Karenina, “to be alive is to be heartbroken,” and much more!

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This is a hot one! Pamela Paul — longtime editor of the New York Times Book Review, author of nine books, current writer-at-large for the Wall Street Journal — tells Nancy and Sarah about her unceremonious exit from the New York Times, where she had been an Opinion columnist. What happened? Well, it’s a long and juicy story, one that includes a J.K. Rowling column, a “lot of dishonesty and fear,” and an email dispatched in the middle of the night, a story that caused Nancy’s and Sarah’s jaws to literally drop. (It’s on video!) Paul joined the Opinion section in 2022 to “create space for liberal opinions that had been snuffed out,” the thorny topics most journalists in 2020 were afraid to write about — and might still be. “It’s really unsettling when an Opinion section is afraid of opinions,” says Paul. “You cannot pretend culture out of existence.”

Also discussed:

* How were things inside the New York Times in 2020? “Really awful.”

* George Will, 2014: “Victimhood [as] a coveted status that confers privileges.” NYT 2020: “Hold my beer.”

* “You’ve lost the room…”

* We are not finished talking about the defenestrations of Times’ James Bennett, Bari Weiss, Donald McNeil Jr….

* New York Times readers are smarter than we give them credit for.

* Props for Jesse Singal, Michael Powell, whoever Pamela’s editor was at Opinion, whose stand-up-ness makes Nancy tear up

* “The truth is a motherfucker.”

Plus, tasty bits in the hotbox: a Disneyland for Netflix grown-ups, the 1000-page book about revenge and justice you should be reading, a new old-skool medical drama, and much more!

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we told you…

Going to Gacy: A Cross Country Journey to Shake the Devil’s Hand, tells the story of a drive I made cross-country with a pen pal of John Wayne Gacy’s, to visit the serial killer in prison in the weeks before his execution. I originally sold the piece -- my first feature -- to Details. I wrote a draft and faxed it to the editor - this was 1994 - who told…