This episode was recorded on 29th September 2026.

Joe Lister is CEO of Unite Group, the UK's largest owner and operator of purpose-built student accommodation.

Joe joined Unite in 2002 from PwC's corporate finance team, when the business had 3,000 beds. He spent 15 years as CFO before taking over as CEO.

He tells Matthew Watts how Unite helped turn student accommodation into an institutional asset class, and about the decision to waive £100m of rent when students were sent home during Covid.

Joe explains the demand shock of the last 18 months. Visa changes cut the number of international postgraduate students, and more students at low-tariff universities chose to live at home. Occupancy fell from 97-98% to 95%, and investors asked why Unite hadn't seen it coming.

He sets out the plan to sell around 15,000 beds, reduce from 29 cities to around 20, and move into second and third year housing through Hello Student.

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Gabriela Hersham didn't set out to work in property. She studied international business with French and Spanish, then moved to New York to study acting at the Lee Strasberg Theatre & Film Institute before moving into producing. Working out of an early WeWork gave her the idea, and when she moved back to London she set out to build the same kind of space. She grew up in a real estate family - her father, Gary Hersham of Beauchamp Estates, has been a guest on the show - and she credits her parents with her work ethic more than any knowledge of property.

Getting Huckletree from idea to its first building took three years. She raised a seed round of around £300,000 before she had a site, then spent close to a year unable to secure a lease, because she had no covenant and many landlords didn't want flexible workspace in their buildings. The first space was 2,400 sq ft in Clerkenwell, with 40 desks and one meeting room. Early on she also gave equity to a friend who helped her raise money but was never going to be operational in the business. She wouldn't do it again, because you never get that equity back.

Today Huckletree is a 50-person business with a quarter of a million square feet and more than 5,000 members, including spaces at 8 Bishopsgate and 40 Leadenhall. Gabriela's argument is that the market has moved heavily in the operators' favour. Landlords now fund the fit-out and offer management agreements, enterprise businesses treat flex as central to their workspace strategy, and occupiers sign up for 24 or 36 months, paying more than £1,000 a desk in some locations. What they're paying for is the building itself. In her words, people don't want to go to an office building anymore, they want to go to a lifestyle building.

She also talks about building a team, firing quickly when someone isn't working out, and running a business as the primary caregiver for her children. The conversation was recorded while she was on maternity leave.

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Jack Palmer left school at 17 with his A-levels unfinished, supported by his dad and rather less so by his mum. He started out as an art handler at Christie's, working in the house sales department, photographing and cataloguing the contents of stately homes for a week or two at a time. At 19 he went back to Hong Kong, where he'd lived until he was eight, with the intention of getting into real estate.

He spent years there building a network of family offices, first in an international role selling London property into Asian buyers, then moving into domestic commercial office leasing and transactions. At 25 or 26 he left the security of a larger firm and spent eight months from early 2019 writing a strategy for what became his own business, built on a simple observation: plenty of capital still wanted London commercial, plenty of managers operated there, but very few had a genuine Asia-centric focus. He partnered with Christopher, who had 35 years in the central London market, so the business had someone in Asia dedicated to private capital and someone in London executing the business plan.

Seven years on, Palmer Tabor Properties runs assets in London and Australia with teams across London, Hong Kong, Singapore and Kuala Lumpur. Zac Goodman's TSP has now taken a 50% stake in the business, which trades as PTSP. Jack's argument about Asian capital is that the British misread it. The decision makers in the Far East are dealmakers in their own right, many of whom built their wealth being inquisitive and curious, and his theory is that you're only ever two phone calls from the person who actually decides. Getting in front of them isn't easy, but it's easier than most people assume. What they're judging you on once you're there is track record: they're looking for problem solvers who bring results.

He's also open about what that costs. Around 63 flights last year, and the strain an international business puts on relationships and friendships.

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