In this episode of the People Property Place podcast, Nick Leslau, a real estate investing legend who has built and backed some of the most influential UK property vehicles of the last few decades, shares what really matters when markets turn and leverage starts to bite.

Drawing on a career spanning Prestbury, listed platforms, major exits, and multiple cycles, Nick explains why credit, not property, has always been the real risk. He reflects on early lessons from the securitisation era, the danger signals he watches in bank behaviour and loan to value ratios, and why every property crash ultimately traces back to the same place, too much debt in the system.

The conversation also explores what it takes to make decisions at scale over decades. Nick speaks candidly about insecurity, judgement, and why he has never believed success comes from being the smartest person in the room. Instead, he credits long term performance to surrounding yourself with sharper minds, staying wary of your own conviction, and keeping discipline when others chase narratives. A clear, experience led discussion on risk, capital allocation, and how People, Property and Place intersect inside real estate investing.

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In this episode of the People Property Place podcast, Harm Meijer draws on decades of experience across listed real estate and capital markets to unpack how cycles really play out when sentiment turns and leverage starts to bite.

From his early career on the sell side to building ICAMAP, Harm explains why investors repeatedly misjudge market turning points, how incentives inside listed vehicles quietly shape long term outcomes, and why management alignment often matters more than the assets themselves. He reflects on the lessons learned during the Global Financial Crisis, the risks of catching falling knives, and the discipline required before capital is redeployed.

The conversation also explores why listed real estate remains structurally misunderstood today, how private equity is exploiting inefficiencies in public markets, and what most investors get wrong about liquidity, exits, and governance. Harm shares how these insights influence ICAMAP's approach across strategies, and why conviction must be grounded in fundamentals rather than narratives.

A clear, experience led discussion on risk, capital allocation, and how People, Property and Place intersect inside real estate investing.

Real Estate Rules: The Investor's Guide to Picking Winners and Avoiding Losers in Listed Property - Amazon Link

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This week, I sat down with Martin Towns to unpack a career built across brokerage, private equity, institutional fund management, and now global leadership, and what it takes to scale a real estate investment platform across multiple cycles and geographies.

Martin is Global Head of Real Estate at M&G, responsible for the strategic direction and growth of a real estate business managing approximately $50bn of assets across 26 countries in Europe, Asia and North America. He has more than 20 years' experience in real estate investment management, including 15 years at M&G, and previously held roles at Close Brothers Investment Bank and Jones Lang LaSalle.

In this conversation, Martin shares how growing up in rural Scotland led him into Land Economy, why his early years at JLL and Close Brothers shaped his understanding of risk and cycles, and how living through the Global Financial Crisis fundamentally influenced his approach to leverage, structuring and downside protection. We discuss why he joined M&G when the platform was still UK focused and internally funded, and how proprietary capital was used to seed strategies that later scaled into global third party businesses.

Martin explains the evolution of M&G's residential and living platforms, the creation of its Capital Solutions business for large institutional investors, and the strategic thinking behind acquiring value add specialist Beaumont. We also explore investor behaviour across regions, the return of capital to core real estate, how global LP preferences are shifting, and what leadership looks like when you move from doing deals to setting strategy at scale.

Key Topics Covered in This Episode

✅ From Rural Scotland to Global Real Estate Leadership

How Martin's early career choices and formative experiences shaped his long term investment philosophy.

✅ Lessons from the GFC

Why understanding cycles, leverage and macro risk remains critical for institutional real estate investors.

✅ Building a Global Platform at M&G

How internal life assurance capital helped seed strategies that later scaled into multi billion pound global funds.

✅ Living, Capital Solutions and Value Add

Why residential and living assets became institutionalised and how bespoke mandates and co investment changed M&G's growth trajectory.

✅ Acquiring Beaumont

The rationale behind adding value add capability and how to integrate specialist teams without destroying culture or performance.

And of course, I asked Martin the big question:

Who are the People, what Property, and which Place would you invest in if you had £500 million to deploy?

If you have thoughts or questions about this episode, drop them in the comments. I'd love to hear your take.

The People Property Place Podcast is powered by Rockbourne, recruiting leadership talent for real estate funds, owners, investors, and developers.

🔊 LIKE ➡ SHARE ➡ SUBSCRIBE

👉 http://peoplepropertyplace.com/