IN THIS EPISODE:

In this episode of ‘Out of Session’ by Kindman and Co., hosts Paul and Dani sit down in a very real, very human place: tired, grieving, a little cynical, and unsure they “got it” today. What unfolds is an honest conversation about what happens when life hands you things that can’t be fixed — persistent grief, chronic stress, old childhood loneliness, the slow drip of exhaustion.

Together, they wrestle with what it means to support clients, friends, and each other when there’s no clear solution. At the heart of the episode is a simple but powerful shift: moving from “I don’t got this” to “We got this.” It’s a conversation about borrowing hope, showing up imperfectly, and discovering that sometimes connection — not fixing — is what actually transforms the moment.

TOPICS:

Tiredness, Guilt, Self-Care, Personal Journey, Mental Health Support, Community, Hope

KEY FIGURES:

Paul Kindman, LMFT

Dani Marrufo, LMFT

Kindman & Co.

KEY TAKEAWAYS:

1. Resignation and acceptance are not the same.
Both acknowledge that something “is,” but resignation feels hopeless and powerless, while acceptance leaves room for agency, compassion, and even possibility.
2. Not everything in life is fixable — and that’s hard to tolerate.

As therapists and as humans, there’s a deep pull to fix pain. But much of life’s suffering (grief, chronic stress, old wounds) requires learning how to carry it, not cure it.

3. Hope can feel complicated.

Optimism can be grounding and reassuring — or it can feel dismissive and insincere. There’s a tension between offering validation (“this sucks”) and offering reassurance (“we’ll figure it out”).

4. Borrowed hope is powerful.

When “I don’t got this” feels true, shifting to “we got this” can restore a sense of shared strength. Connection expands capacity.

5. Showing up imperfectly can transform the moment.

Even when exhausted, grieving, or unsure, choosing to show up — for a friend, a client, or a conversation — can shift the experience from isolation to connection.

KEY QUOTES:

1. “It takes a lot of energy just to be a person these days.” — Paul

2. “I know it’s gonna just be there and I think I’m waiting to just hold it differently.” — Dani

3. “Resignation is a relatively hopeless way of approaching something that just is, and acceptance is maybe a slightly more hopeful.” — Paul

4. “If I show up for my friend, it might actually meaningfully transform my experience.” — Paul

5. “I don’t got it.” — Dani

CALL TO ACTION:

Today's episode is bringing you to a friend you’ve been meaning to text or wanting to show up for. We encourage you to reach out and remember that borrowed hope is powerful and showing up imperfectly can transform the moment.

Look out for the transcript of this episode on the Kindman & Co. blog and sign up for the Kindman & Co. newsletter to stay connected.

IN THIS EPISODE:

In this episode of ‘Out of Session’ by Kindman and Co., hosts Liam and Sarah dive deep into the systemic nature of burnout. Through personal anecdotes and professional insights, they debunk the myth that burnout is an individual problem and highlight how workplace culture, unrealistic expectations, and lack of community contribute to this pervasive issue. They also discuss the importance of building connections with colleagues and offer practical advice on how to navigate and mitigate burnout. Tune in to explore how to reclaim your well-being in a demanding work environment.

TOPICS:

Burnout, Tiredness, Guilt, Self-Care, Hyper-Productivity Culture, Personal Journey, Mental Health Support, Systemic Problems, Workplace, Community

KEY FIGURES:

Liam Degeorgio, AMFT

Sarah Barukh, ACSW

Kindman & Co.

KEY TAKEAWAYS:

1. Burnout is systemic, not personal.

Burnout isn’t caused by individual weakness or poor coping—it’s driven by structural issues like workload expectations, productivity metrics, and organizational priorities.

2. Isolation makes burnout worse.

When workplaces discourage connection or leave no energy for relationships, people are more likely to internalize blame and feel alone in their struggle.

3. Work culture trains us to ignore our own needs.

When energy reserves are empty, reaching out to friends, returning calls, or engaging in meaningful connection can feel overwhelming—often accompanied by guilt for wanting what you can’t access.

4. Self-care advice often shifts responsibility away from broken systems.

Productivity hacks and “fix yourself” solutions place the burden back on individuals instead of addressing the workplace conditions causing burnout.

5. Technology keeps people psychologically on the clock.

Constant accessibility through phones and email erodes real downtime, making recovery from work stress increasingly difficult.

6. Connection and collective action are powerful antidotes to burnout.

Community—whether through coworkers, shared experiences, or organized action—helps reduce self-blame and creates pathways for meaningful change.

KEY QUOTES:
1. “Burnout is a system problem, not a you problem.” — Sarah

2. “There’s nothing more nihilistic than reducing life to something that needs to be optimized.” — Liam

3. “If these corporations are treating us like machines, then we see ourselves as machines” — Sarah

4. “I realized now, I mean, it is structural. The expectations of the company are not about helping people heal. It’s a numbers game.” — Sarah

5. “Nothing has an intrinsic meaning, and that encourages us to ask: whose values are these that I’m living by?” — Liam

CALL TO ACTION:

Today's episode is bringing you to the book, “Burnout: The Secret to Unlocking the Stress Cycle” by Emily Nagoski, PhD and Amelia Nagoski DMA. In this book they talk about what you can do to complete the biological stress cycle—and return your body to a state of relaxation, how to manage the “monitor” in your brain that regulates the emotion of frustration, and much more.

Interested in learning more about the Kaiser Permanente mental health workers that Sarah was talking about? Check out this article.
Look out for the transcript of this episode on the Kindman & Co. blog and sign up for the Kindman & Co. newsletter to stay connected.

IN THIS EPISODE:

In this episode of ‘Out of Session’ by Kindman and Co., hosts Kaitlin, Dani, and Clarissa discuss the concepts of compassion fatigue, guilt, and shame, while reflecting on societal and cultural narratives around rest and productivity. The therapists underscore the importance of intentional rest as a form of resistance against the pressures of hyper-productivity and capitalist culture, and advocate for self-care despite feelings of guilt or inadequacy.

TOPICS:

Tiredness, Guilt, Self-Care, Exhaustion, Rest, Hyper-Productivity Culture, Personal Journey

KEY FIGURES:

Kaitlin Kindman, LCSW

Dani Marrufo, LMFT

Clarissa Santisteban

Kindman & Co.

CALL TO ACTION:

Today's episode is bringing you to a couple different places! First, Weezie, who is the ultimate ‘rest rebel’, is bringing you to MaeDay Rescue. Founded by Natalie Garcia, MaeDay Rescue is 501C3 nonprofit, and started as a one-woman mission to help abandoned dogs. Since then it has grown into a full-scale rescue effort built on collaboration, education and heart. You can view their website at maedayrescue.com.

Weezie would also like you to check out Kitten Rescue Los Angeles. Kitten Rescue is a non-profit, volunteer based organization devoted to finding loving homes for unwanted, homeless cats and kittens in LA. They educate the public about responsible pet guardianship, how to care for kittens and cats, and the importance of spaying and neutering. Kitten Rescue makes educational material available via events, print, school presentations and on their website at kittenrescue.org.

We would also like to bring you to The Nap Ministry. Founded by Tricia Hersey, The Nap Ministry is a community installation that examines the liberating power of naps. They believe rest is a form of resistance and install Collective Napping Experiences for the community to rest together in a safe space. Follow them on Instagram at The Nap Ministry.
Be sure to check out our blog at Kindman & Co. blog - Paul Kindman has a post on Rest, Its Many Facets and the Consequences of Rest Neglect. You can also find the full transcript of this episode there as well.