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Leading Notes Podcast

Leading Notes Podcast

De : Melissa Forbes
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Make music that matters.Copyright 2024 All rights reserved. Hygiène et vie saine Musique Psychologie Psychologie et psychiatrie Sciences sociales
Épisodes
  • 16. Embrace the awkward: Community, belonging, and radical welcome, with Joel Carnegie

    16. Embrace the awkward: Community, belonging, and radical welcome, with Joel Carnegie
    May 31 2026
    Joel Carnegie—conductor, broadcaster, and storyteller—talks about Awkwardstra Geelong, a community orchestra that is quietly doing some of the most important social work in the business. Joel shares how he came to Awkwardstra after a demanding period in his professional life, and why the experience fundamentally changed how he thinks about music and leadership. This episode is a masterclass in what inclusive, values-driven music-making can look like in practice. Joel also reflects on his background as a storyteller and how narrative — including the music itself — can convey the value of community music in ways statistics simply can't. Drawing on his training in acting methods and voice work, he offers a thoughtful account of what it means to lead from the podium with empathy, clarity, and a willingness to sit with uncertainty. This conversation is full of practical wisdom and genuine inspiration. Key Topics Discussed The origins of Awkwardstra Geelong and Joel's path to becoming its conductorWhat radical inclusivity looks like in a community orchestra and the practical structures that support itManaging a wide range of skill levels and experience: music selection, coaching programs, and section supportThe "Awky Pass" and how the collective supports individual members facing financial barriersThe tension between musical quality and inclusivity and why it can be a generative rather than a destructive tensionThe role of story in making the case for community music, including a commissioned piece built from players' own storiesHow acting training and voice work inform Joel's practice as a conductor and ensemble leaderEmpathy, clarity, and openness as core qualities in music leadershipWhat music leadership has to offer organisational leadership more broadlyAdvice for young musicians interested in community music Notable Quotes "Making music for the joy of it, for creating connections across the community, and for offering people an opportunity to extend themselves — that's really what we're doing here." "The podium never lies. There's no one else you can really be except yourself up there." "We start every rehearsal by recognising that we've all had whatever happened during the day, and we take a moment to arrive into the space — intentionally — and remember that we're in physical bodies playing instruments that are physical." "Music allows us to feel. And when we can feel, we can connect with other people. We're in the business of feeling-making and moment-making." "People getting together and playing music is eternal. And those who are providing the structure for that to happen are creating guardrails and forms of resilience and resistance." "Just because it's not happening in Sydney or Melbourne doesn't mean it is not of value." Resources Mentioned Awkwardstra Geelong — community orchestra based in Geelong, VICKym Dillon — composer, pianist, and arranger who created a piece for Awkwardstra based on players' stories; performing with the orchestra again at the Geelong Arts Centre, 17 October 2026Pako Festa (Pakington Street Festival) — Geelong's largest street festival; Awkwardstra performed as a flash mob opening actIngrid Martin — Joel's conducting coachABC Classic Evenings — national radio program hosted by Joel Carnegie About Guest Joel Carnegie is a conductor, performer, and storyteller whose work spans live music, broadcasting, and community engagement. Each weeknight he hosts the national Evenings program on ABC Classic, and his storytelling work has earned recognition at the New York Festivals International Radio Awards and The Whickers, a prestigious international award for audio storytelling. From 2015 to 2024, Joel was Founder and Head of Storytelling at The Space Company, where he led the creation of music-rich podcasts, screen productions, and live stage works — including the nationally touring double bill Stardust + The Mission, which involved over 200 local musicians across 45 cities. A graduate of the Australia Council's Future Leaders program, he holds degrees from the University of Melbourne, Swinburne, and Deakin, with performance training in Graz, Austria. Joel is now the Conductor of Awkwardstra Geelong, a community orchestra built on a simple but radical idea: that making music together should be open to everyone. Connect with Guest https://www.joelcarnegie.com/ https://www.linkedin.com/in/joelcarnegie/ Episode Highlights [00:01:47] How Awkwardstra began — and why Joel joined [00:05:37] The philosophy behind the name and what inclusivity looks like in the rehearsal room [00:14:57] Removing barriers: the Awky Pass, coaching programs, and community support [00:18:09] Musical quality vs. inclusivity — a generative tension [00:22:19] The power of story in community music, and commissioning Kim Dillon [00:28:13] Why Joel pursued acting methods and voice training — and how they shape his leadership [00:32:24] The most important qualities in a music leader: ...
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    49 min
  • 15. The hidden work of singing group facilitation, with Dr Belinda Densley

    15. The hidden work of singing group facilitation, with Dr Belinda Densley
    Apr 30 2026
    Dr Belinda Densley has spent more than 30 years facilitating community singing groups in Geelong, Victoria, and over that time she came to understand that the work was never really about the voice. It was about the mechanics of heart, soul, and mind. That realisation led her through a Masters in Counselling and Psychotherapy and ultimately to a recently completed PhD, in which she developed a grounded theory of group singing facilitation she calls Creating Song Magic. In this episode, Belinda unpacks that theory, exploring the four core dimensions of the facilitator's role: advocating for people's right to sing, curating repertoire that creates meaningful experiences, welcoming and sustaining harmonious expression in the room, and contributing to the transformation of communities. She also speaks candidly about the "hidden work" that singing facilitators do — work that has remained largely invisible, under-resourced, and poorly defined, even within music and community health sectors. We talk about what it means to reframe the singing facilitator as a community health resource, the importance of boundary-setting and reflective practice, and why Belinda believes trauma-informed relational skills should be foundational to any future training for facilitators. She also shares a deeply moving story about a love-and-loss singing session that rippled far beyond the room. Key Topics Discussed The burning question behind Belinda's PhDWhy the singing facilitator role has remained hidden The four categories of Creating Song Magic: advocating, curating, welcoming and sustaining harmonious expression, and transforming communitiesThe difference between participatory, circle-based singing and performance-oriented models like pub choirThe facilitator as a community health resource and the consequences of that role remaining unrecognised and underfundedBoundary-setting in facilitation, and how clarity within the facilitator translates to clarity for participantsThe case for trauma-informed, relational training for singing facilitators Sharing research findings through a five-part podcast series as an accessible alternative to academic publishingThe systemic barriers community singing groups face in accessing physical spacesThe role of autonomous health-seeking behaviour in group singing participation Notable Quotes "The work was never really about the mechanics of the voice — it was about the mechanics of heart, soul, and mind." "You have the fundamental human right to sing. You can sing." "We're not asking, are we trying to get the notes to be accurate? We're trying to create the harmony that's beyond musical — a harmony of beingness, a harmony within community." "People fell in love with the singing group and sometimes misplace that love for the facilitator. Getting clear on what your role is does so much of the work. The confusion really stops existing if you're not confused yourself." "I don't advertise — people that come to me come via someone already in the group. There's already an expectation that there's going to be a wellbeing effect from coming." "This thing that just happened today has caused so much therapeutic growth that is beyond the capacity of me as one individual." "Singing with another allows so much possibility in — for love, actually, for love." "There's no reason everyone in Australia can't be in a singing group once a week." Resources Creating Song Magic — Belinda Densley's grounded theory of group singing facilitation (PhD research, Federation University Australia)Belinda's podcast documenting participant experiences of her singing groups Acabellas About Guest Dr Belinda Densley is a singing facilitator, counsellor, and researcher based in Geelong, Victoria, Australia. For more than 30 years, she has facilitated community singing groups grounded in the belief that singing is a fundamental human right and a powerful vehicle for wellbeing, connection, and community transformation. Belinda holds a Masters in Counselling and Psychotherapy and a PhD from Federation University Australia, where her research focused on the process of group singing facilitation itself. Her grounded theory, Creating Song Magic, is the first study of its kind to illuminate the complex, relational, and largely invisible work that skilled singing facilitators perform. She also teaches postgraduate counselling students and mentors emerging facilitators. Alongside her research, Belinda has disseminated her PhD findings through an accessible five-part podcast series, reflecting her commitment to making practitioner knowledge available beyond academic audiences. Connect with Belinda https://acabellas.com.au/contact/ Episode Highlights 02:00 — The burning question: what mechanisms beneath the wellbeing effects of group singing led Belinda to pursue a PhD? 03:00 — Why the singing facilitator role sits "in the middle of a lot of different areas" and has remained underexplored 05:30 — Singing as a "with" ...
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    40 min
  • 14. Music, Youth Justice, and the Power of Belonging, with Dr Alexis Kallio

    14. Music, Youth Justice, and the Power of Belonging, with Dr Alexis Kallio
    Mar 31 2026
    What happens when a researcher brings together music education and criminology to advocate for the rights of some of society's most marginalised young people? In this episode, I speak with Dr Alexis Kallio, an interdisciplinary researcher whose work sits at a unique and important intersection—one that is challenging how institutions think about music, punishment, and what young people truly need to thrive. Alexis shares how her background in both music education and criminology led her to focus on music programs in youth justice settings, and what she has learned from collaborating with Western Australian hip-hop artist Optimus (Scott Griffiths) on the Banksia Beats program at Banksia Hill Youth Detention Centre. She reflects on what it means to meet young people as musicians rather than as students, why ownership and trust are so transformative in carceral settings, and why trauma-informed practice is relevant for every musician working with young people, not just those in detention. Throughout, Alexis makes a compelling case that music is not a luxury or a reward—it is a fundamental right for every child. Key Topics Discussed How Alexis's degrees in both music education and criminology shaped her research focus on youth justice settingsThe Banksia Beats program at Banksia Hill Youth Detention Centre and what makes it effectiveWhy meeting young people as musicians—rather than as teacher and student—is central to building trustThe importance of agency, ownership, and strengths-based approaches in music programs for incarcerated youthTrauma-informed practice and why it matters across all music education contextsWhy there is no one-size-fits-all pedagogical approach: responding to the individual in the roomThe concept of "hungry listening" (Dylan Robinson) and what it means for musicians working in community settingsAlexis's national symposium on music, crime and social change and the community it has createdThe Policing Australian Popular Music project and its work with Queensland Police ServiceThe case for music and music education as a fundamental right for every child Notable Quotes "At the end of the day, these are children." "In a space where young people have ownership over literally nothing—they can't even choose the temperature of their shower—to have ownership over something with expensive music equipment, and have that as yours, can be a really powerful sense of pride." "There is no one right way, because there's no one child." "Music is all about connection. And connection is all about music." "I'd like music and music education to be a right for every child, regardless of their background or circumstance—something that is seen as essential to their lives now, but also their growth." "Young people's voices are sometimes articulated more clearly through their music than through any words they'll say to a social worker or a psychologist." Resources Mentioned Hungry Listening by Dylan Robinson About Guest Dr Alexis Kallio is an interdisciplinary researcher at Griffith University whose work explores how music education and creative practices create opportunities for equity and justice, particularly for young people experiencing vulnerability or marginalisation. Drawing on expertise in both music education and criminology, Alexis examines how educators and musicians navigate questions of power, values, and meaning in their work. Her research bridges grassroots community practice with institutional frameworks, asking critical questions about how creative spaces can be structured to support positive youth development. She has taught across studio, school, university, and community settings in both Australia and Finland. Connect with Alexis Episode Highlights 05:00 Why Alexis sees all young people—regardless of setting—as deserving the same child-centred approach to music13:30 What makes the Banksia Beats program so effective, and why musical expertise matters15:45 The profound impact of ownership and trust in a detention centre music studio22:00 Why music is uniquely positioned to develop both individual identity and social connection simultaneously26:00 Dylan Robinson's concept of "hungry listening" and what it means to truly listen to young people29:00 The national symposium on music, crime and social change—and finding your people33:30 Alexis's submission to the youth justice inquiry and her challenge to the idea of incarceration as a solution36:30 The Policing Australian Popular Music project and working with Queensland Police Service
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    42 min
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