Kenton Brice sits at the center of what he calls "a massive Venn diagram"—law libraries, legal technology, higher education, and the practicing bar—and from that unique vantage point, he sees something most people miss: law schools have zero incentive to change. With three powerful forces keeping the status quo locked in place (U.S. News rankings, ABA accreditation, and unlimited student loans), traditional legal education persists even as the profession transforms around it.

In this episode of Lawyers Who Learn, host David Schnurman explores Kenton's vision for reimagining legal education at the University of Oklahoma College of Law, where he directs the law library and runs the Digital Initiative—a 12-year experiment in building technology competencies outside the required curriculum. Through Tuesday and Thursday lunch-and-learns, conference trips, and hands-on workshops, Kenton prepares students for a profession where managed service organizations are disrupting traditional firm structures and AI is forcing a complete rethinking of legal service delivery.

The conversation moves from practical questions about preserving legal materials in a digital age to provocative ideas about trashing the bar exam entirely. His blueprint for building a law school from scratch prioritizes design-oriented curiosity over doctrinal mastery, AI-infused hybrid learning over traditional lectures, and two years of intensive study over three years of diminishing returns.

But Kenton's real passion emerges in his vision for the "holistic lawyer." Beyond competencies and technology, he wants lawyers who see themselves as protectors of democracy, not just service providers. When 78% of people can't access the civil justice system and a single mother facing eviction can't find representation, Kenton asks the fundamental question: can we make money and serve people at the same time? His answer, drawn from his men's reading group discussions of Man's Search for Meaning and his weekend woodworking projects, is an emphatic yes—if we're willing to reimagine the profession entirely.

When Jennifer Rakstad's firm surveyed their associates, the feedback was clear: traditional training wasn't having the impact they wanted. As Senior Manager of Learning and Development at White & Case, Jennifer worked hand in hand with a committee of partners to lead the creation of Momentum—a three-day immersive program that's already reached 350 lawyers. What makes it different: every session is designed and taught by the firm's own partners and senior associates, for a true “lawyer-led” experience.

In this episode of Lawyers Who Learn, host David Schnurman explores Jennifer's path from litigation to professional development. After applying to 200 judges for clerkships with over a dozen interviews and receiving zero offers, Jennifer regrouped with a targeted approach that landed her a federal clerkship in Puerto Rico. Seven years into litigation practice at Mayer Brown, a colleague noticed her passion for firm initiatives and recruiting work, asking if she'd consider pivoting entirely. That conversation led to her becoming one of the first ICF-certified coaches in a law firm.

The Momentum program represents a major investment, taking associates offsite for three days with full partner faculty involvement. The program creates cohort experiences where associates learn from partners who've been in the trenches, with plans to have participants eventually teach each other.

Jennifer also shares how a fractured ankle during a family trip to Japan transformed her perspective on accessibility challenges. Despite doctors suggesting she fly home, she completed two more weeks in Japan on crutches, followed by two months in a wheelchair. That experience reinforced the empathy that drives her work developing lawyers.

Sarah Ennor spent years as a securities lawyer at major banks, excelling at sophisticated legal work but challenged by corporate politics and what she sometimes thought was lack of motivation and discipline. In 2015, she left corporate law, traveled to Sri Lanka for a 10-day silent meditation retreat, worked and lived on a New Zealand winery, and returned to launch her own legal practice. But running a solo practice without corporate infrastructure proved unexpectedly overwhelming, until a stranger at a cocktail party asked if she had ADHD.

In this episode of Lawyers Who Learn, host David Schnurman explores Sarah's journey from that eye-opening conversation to formal diagnosis, and ultimately to becoming a sought-after speaker who makes ADHD "human and profitable" for law firms and their attorneys, and corporations.

Sarah reveals why lawyers are drawn to the profession's constant urgency and novel problems (the very dopamine hits that ADHD brains crave) while also explaining why law firms often punish the behaviors that come with the condition. When she finally tried medication, the fog lifted and she realized she'd been working ten times harder than necessary. She now helps firms move beyond surface-level awareness to create genuinely supportive environments through curiosity and outcome-focused thinking.

This conversation goes beyond the "ADHD as superpower" narrative to honestly address the disability many face and the transformative power of self-compassion over discipline. These insights resonate deeply even for those still navigating their own undiagnosed experiences.