On the podcast, I talk with Sebastian about the power of building in public, how persistence pays off when growth is slow, and why focusing on user needs and iterative improvement can lead to unexpected success in indie app development.

Top Takeaways:

💡 Building in public isn’t a marketing trick — it’s a momentum engine
Sebastian didn’t have a marketing budget when he launched his first apps. Instead, he built in public, sharing screenshots, updates, and revenue transparently on X (Twitter). This not only brought early users but also helped him stay motivated through long stretches of slow growth.

🧩 Success comes from clarity, not complexity
His first app, LiftBear, was a workout tracker that tried to do too much. It didn’t fail to live up to expectations because it was bad — it didn’t succeed because it wasn’t distinct. HabitKit, on the other hand, had a single, instantly recognizable visual hook: a GitHub-style contribution grid that turned habit tracking into a game of consistency.

🚀 Patience pays off — app store algorithms can change your life overnight
After months of steady updates and reviews, HabitKit suddenly began ranking for “habit tracker” in several major markets — without any new marketing push. The result: downloads and revenue skyrocketed.

💰 Lifetime plans build trust — even if you love subscriptions
All of Sebastian’s apps use a freemium model, with monthly, annual, and lifetime options. He believes offering a one-time purchase alongside subscriptions reduces friction and builds goodwill among users who hate recurring payments.

🧠 Building a new app can reignite your creativity
After three years of improving HabitKit, Sebastian started to feel burned out. His new app, FocusKit, gave him a chance to learn SwiftUI, experiment with Apple’s new Liquid Glass aesthetic, and explore productivity from a fresh angle.

About Sebastian Röhl:

🎤 Founder and CEO of HabitKit & FocusKit

📱 Sebastian Röhl is a passionate indie app developer and tech entrepreneur. With a background in computer science and a drive for solving real-world problems, he created HabitKit and FocusKit to help users build productive habits and stay focused. After working at top software companies, Sebastian followed his entrepreneurial spirit, focusing on mobile apps that combine simplicity with powerful functionality.

👋 LinkedIn

💻 Substack https://sebastianroehl.substack.com/

Follow us on X:

• Charlie Chapman - @_chuckyc
• RevenueCat - @RevenueCat
• Launched - @LaunchedFM

Episode Highlights:

[0:00] Introduction to Sebastian Röhl and his journey into indie app development

[2:20] The power of building in public: How sharing your process helps you grow

[5:41] Persistence in the face of slow growth: Why consistency is key to success

[9:02] Focusing on user needs: How Sebastian’s personal challenges shaped his apps

[12:45] From LiftBare to HabitKit: Pivoting after initial setbacks

[16:00] The importance of simplicity and design in HabitKit and FocusKit

[19:55] Using feedback and iteration to improve your product over time

[24:30] How small wins, like app store ranking boosts, can lead to bigger success

[28:10] Learning from competitors, but staying true to your own vision

[32:05] The role of data in guiding decisions and refining your product

[36:15] Why Sebastian chose SwiftUI for FocusKit and the importance of native development

[40:02] Continuing to build and evolve: How building in public keeps you motivated

[43:45] The importance of not rushing to judgment: Embracing learning and testing in the process

[47:02] Insights on the future of indie app development and staying innovative

[49:55] Final thoughts on how to balance building apps and long-term growth

On the podcast, I talk with Sandeep about how a frustrated student’s struggle inspired him to create NaadSadhana, a revolutionary AI-driven app that helps singers perfect their pitch in real time. We dive into how his journey—from Microsoft and Google engineer to Apple Design Award-winning musician—shows what happens when art and technology truly harmonize.

Top Takeaways:

🎵 Build for Passion, Not Just Profit
Sandeep didn’t set out to build a business—he built NaadSadhana to help one struggling student. Solving a personal, meaningful problem led to a product that resonated deeply with others. Passion-first can still lead to product-market fit.

🧠 Invent What Doesn’t Exist
No app could help singers practice pitch accurately. So Sandeep built one—then layered in AI to simulate a responsive, collaborative band. When off-the-shelf solutions don’t exist, invent your own, especially if you're the first customer.

🔄 Iterate Like an Artist
Despite winning an Apple Design Award, Sandeep rewrote the app from scratch to add more instruments and complexity. Don’t let accolades freeze you. Treat your product like a living artwork—refine, rebuild, and evolve.

🧘 Stay Human in the Age of AI
Sandeep calls his AI "artistic intelligence." It doesn't replace musicians—it empowers them. He built ethical constraints into the app to keep it human-feeling. Augment people, don’t automate them out of the process.

📣 Word of Mouth Over Paid Ads
NaadSadhana grew organically through teachers, students, and artists sharing it. No marketing team. No budget. Just a product that solved real problems and delighted users. Focus on creating “wow”—and trust the users to spread the word.

🎛 Obsess Over Craft
From psychoacoustics to sub-millisecond latency to modeling physical string vibrations, Sandeep sweats every detail most users will never see. Excellence compounds. When you build with care, it shows—even when people don’t know why.

About Sandeep Ranade:

🎤 Founder and CEO of NaadSadhana

📱 Sandeep Ranade is a passionate Hindu classical musician and tech entrepreneur. Combining his deep knowledge of music and cutting-edge technology, he created an app that helps users improve their vocal precision. After a career at top tech companies, Sandeep pursued his passion for teaching and carried it to NaadSadhana, with a goal of music without barriers.

👋 LinkedIn

🔍 Wikipedia

💻 Website

Follow us on X:

• Charlie Chapman - @_chuckyc
• RevenueCat - @RevenueCat
• Launched - @LaunchedFM

Episode Highlights:
[0:00] Sandeep's journey from tech to music

[2:15] How NaadSadhana was born out of a need in music education

[5:30] The challenges of developing a music app for vocal training

[9:45] NaadSadhana’s unique approach to vocal tuning and feedback

[15:20] The role of psychoacoustics and signal processing in the app's technology

[22:10] How Sandeep balanced his tech career with his passion for classical music

[28:55] The evolution of NaadSadhana and its growth over time

[35:12] The impact of the Apple Design Award on NaadSadhana's success

[42:20] Sandeep’s thoughts on creating a truly artist-centered app

[48:05] How NaadSadhana fosters better practice habits for musicians

[53:30] The app's influence on the Indian classical music community

[59:40] What’s next for NaadSadhana: expanding features and reaching more musicians

On the podcast, I talk with Jordan about the power of seasonal business cycles, why refining your ad strategy can unlock growth, and how passion-driven apps can still find market fit without a huge marketing budget.

Top Takeaways:

🎯 Understand Your Seasonal Business Cycles
Jordan's app, Elite Hoops, thrives during basketball season, with the bulk of revenue generated from October to March. Recognizing and aligning your business to seasonal trends is key to maximizing growth during peak times.

💡 Optimize Your Ads for Success
After spending $16K on ads with little success, Jordan realized his strategy needed an overhaul. With help from a marketing agency, he’s now refining his approach with stronger creatives, proper attribution, and new tools like the Facebook SDK to drive more effective, scalable campaigns.

🛠 Reinvest in Your Business to Fuel Growth
With Elite Hoops generating consistent revenue, Jordan plans to reinvest in marketing and development to accelerate growth and maximize the business’s potential. Treat your business as a growing asset and reinvest in it to reach new heights.

🎨 Craft Apps You’re Proud Of
Jordan’s approach with apps like Elite Hoops and Alyx is a mix of business focus and creative fulfillment. Whether it's solving a real-world problem or building an app for personal enjoyment, passion and craftsmanship always shine through.

🌍 Don’t Overlook the Power of Organic Growth
Elite Hoops grew without a large marketing budget or paid ads, relying heavily on word of mouth within the coaching community. Focus on delivering a product that resonates with your users, and let them help you grow your brand naturally.

About Jordan Morgan:

🎤 Indie App Developer & Developer Advocate

📱 Jordan Morgan is a seasoned indie app developer and product builder known for creating thoughtfully crafted apps like Elite Hoops and Alyx. With a deep appreciation for design, platform-native experiences, and long-term sustainability, Jordan blends craftsmanship with business pragmatism. After years of building, selling, and reacquiring apps—and working as a developer advocate—he continues to explore what it means to build software that lasts, balancing growth, seasonality, and joy in the creative process.

👋 LinkedIn

💭 Follow Jordan on X - @JordanMorgan10

Follow us on X:

• Charlie Chapman - @_chuckyc
• RevenueCat - @RevenueCat
• Launched - @LaunchedFM

Episode Highlights:
[0:00] Jordan’s transition from indie app development to developer advocate.

[3:20] The creation of Elite Hoops and its focus on helping basketball coaches.

[7:05] The challenges of marketing niche apps and refining paid ad strategies.

[12:30] Understanding seasonal revenue cycles and how they impact app growth.

[17:10] Working with a marketing agency to improve ad creatives and attribution.

[22:45] The emotional journey of reacquiring Spint Stack after selling it.

[28:00] Balancing passion projects with sustainable business growth.

[33:30] The importance of craftsmanship and solving real problems in app development.

[40:15] How word-of-mouth and organic growth fueled Elite Hoops’ success.

[45:50] The technical challenges of scaling an indie app with limited resources.

[50:25] Staying motivated and focused on building apps users genuinely appreciate.

[55:00] What’s next for Jordan’s apps and his future in indie development.