Welcome to In Reality, the podcast about truth, disinformation, and the media with Eric Schoenberg, a longtime journalist and media executive, now the founder of the Alliance for Trust in Media. Most people think of America's political divisions as based in political ideology, red versus blue, liberal versus conservative. But what if we're misunderstanding the fault lines?

Today's guests, Brian Waniewski, the CEO of Harmony Labs and Melody Mohebi of Democracy 2076, have spent the past two years collaborating on a study of how to get Americans to engage with politics. The key lever they identified wasn't policy arguments, but rather stories. Their report, The Power of Story to Grow Democracy, and we'll link to it in the show notes, analyzes hundreds of popular films and shows.

It runs dozens of randomized experiences with more than 10,000 participants and what they found was striking. Americans today may seem irreconcilable, and tend to converge on what they actually want from democracy. A system that is fair, representative and effective. Where they differ is the set of values that move them towards those goals. Values that are revealed by the stories that resonate with them.

Americans that prioritize particular values tend to respond to particular narratives, particular kinds of heroes, particular story arcs, particular visions of change. Now, the conclusion of this report, which Eric found very interesting as a media guy, is how we frame the news, and how we frame our telling of American history can matter more in healing divisions than arguing over facts.

Dig into this more in the conversation coming up with Brian Waniewski and Melody Mohebi.

Website - free episode transcripts
www.in-reality.fm

Alliance for Trust in Media
alliancefortrust.com

Produced by Tom Platts at Sound Sapien
soundsapien.com

Welcome to In Reality—the podcast about truth, disinformation, and the media with Eric Schurenberg, long-time journalist and media executive, now the founder of the Alliance for Trust in Media.

Here is the question of our information-saturated age: Why, when they have access to more information than ever in history, do so many people believe things that are demonstrably untrue? This is not just the gullible, not just “those people”—but also all of us who pride ourselves on thinking clearly.

Today’s guest has spent his career trying to answer that question. David Robert Grimes earned his PhD as a physicist, but switched over to public health and is now an assistant professor at Trinity College School of Medicine in Dublin Ireland. But it’s his parallel career—as a science journalist and author—that brings him to In Reality.

His book Good Thinking—published in the UK as The Irrational Ape—is one of the most readable guides at explaining why human reasoning fails us. In 2014 he won the John Maddox Prize for standing up for science in the face of adversity. In Grimes’ case, that included death threats and campaigns to have him fired from his university post. He kept writing anyway.

In Grimes’ view the barrier is the cognitive architecture we all share—the confirmation biases, the motivated reasoning, the deep human need to protect our identity even at the cost of the truth. In this conversation we’ll dig into why people believe what they believe, what even the most respected journalism institutions get wrong, what AI means for the information ecosystem—and what we can do about it.

Website - free episode transcripts
www.in-reality.fm

Alliance for Trust in Media
alliancefortrust.com

Produced by Tom Platts at Sound Sapien
soundsapien.com

It’s pretty much a cliché to say that Americans live in two separate political realities. We shout at each other from our separate bunkers, unable to agree even on basic facts. One coping strategy—and maybe the default, given human nature—is to hunker down with our own tribe and demonize the other. But there are more constructive ways, and today’s guest makes a living examining those alternatives. He’s Jonathan Stray, senior scientist at University of California Berkeley’s Center for Human-Compatible AI and the creator of the excellent newsletter Better Conflict Bulletin.

Jonathan studies the growing field of peace-building—that is, helping people from different factions work together. He’s involved in research about AI primed to unite people rather than divide them. Some things we learn from this conversation: About a journalistic standard called multi-partiality, a more attainable goal than impartiality. About how you might construct an algorithm that prioritizes reliable news over popular news. And why, despite the state of discord right now, there are reasons to be optimistic.

Faithful listeners might recognize that we recorded this podcast about a year ago, but its relevance has only increased. We're re-posting this the day after the most divisive state of the union address Eric has ever heard. This administration will not last forever, and we will as a country need to find our way back to working together. And we can really use some of Jonathan’s optimism about our ability to do that.

Website - free episode transcripts
www.in-reality.fm

Alliance for Trust in Media
alliancefortrust.com

Produced by Tom Platts at Sound Sapien
soundsapien.com