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In Depth

In Depth

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 Welcome to In Depth, a podcast from The First Round Review that’s dedicated to surfacing the tactical advice founders and startup leaders need to grow their teams, their companies and themselves. Hosted by Brett Berson, a partner at First Round, In Depth will cover a lot of ground and a wide range of topics, from hiring executives and becoming a better manager, to the importance of storytelling inside of your organization. But every interview will hit the level of tactical depth where the very best advice is found. We hope you’ll join us. Subscribe to “In Depth” now and learn more at firstround.com Direction Economie Management Management et direction
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  • Why great product leaders should stop obsessing over the roadmap | Diya Jolly (CPO & CTO of Xero)

    Why great product leaders should stop obsessing over the roadmap | Diya Jolly (CPO & CTO of Xero)
    Apr 30 2026
    In the latest episode of Executive Function, Brett is joined by Diya Jolly, Chief Product and Technology Officer at Xero. Before Xero, Diya was CPT at Okta and led YouTube's advertising monetization products at Google. In this conversation, she unpacks her three-bucket framework for delegating decisions, why the most important part of a CPO’s role is to drive team-wide ambition, and why the best executives need to spend half their time thinking, not doing. In today's episode, we discuss: Why a CPO's number one job is raising their team’s ambition, not shipping features How to demand the best from your team without creating a fear-based culture Why organizational politics is actually an incentives problem How Diya is “militant” with her calendar to carve out dedicated thinking time Why you should avoid chasing titles in your career - and what to chase instead References: Google: https://www.google.com Melio: https://meliopayments.com Okta: https://www.okta.com Sukhinder Singh Cassidy: https://www.linkedin.com/in/sukhinders/ Xero: https://www.xero.com Where to find Diya: LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/diyajolly Where to find Brett: LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/brett-berson-9986094/ Twitter/X: https://twitter.com/brettberson Where to find First Round Capital: Website: https://firstround.com/ First Round Review: https://review.firstround.com/ Twitter/X: https://twitter.com/firstround YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@FirstRoundCapital This podcast on all platforms: https://review.firstround.com/podcast Timestamps: 00:12 How an excellent CPO makes an impact on the business 02:01 How the CPO role shifts under founders vs hired CEOs 03:38 Influencing a founder without going deferential 07:37 How adding value to customers is always a net positive 08:45 Why roadmaps need more risk in the AI era 12:30 How to shelter innovation teams from the existing system 15:12 What's different about being a great CPO in 2026 17:34 How AI has changed the concept of an app 18:28 It’s essential for CPOs to fly at a low altitude 20:34 How misaligned incentives cause organizational politics 25:13 Being demanding without creating a fear-based culture 28:10 Why raising ambition is a CPO's number one job 31:39 The boss who taught Diya to keep raising the bar 32:43 The hardest part of being a CPO 35:28 The three buckets Diya uses to delegate 36:30 How Diya protects deep-work time on her calendar 42:45 Xero’s game-changing early bet on AI insights 44:58 How far into the future should CPOs plan for? 47:14 What it takes to be an excellent C-suite member 48:53 Why ambitious PMs should chase impact, not titles 50:28 The four bottlenecks that stall career growth
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    50 min
  • Inside Artemis' "AI vs AI" war | Shachar Hirshberg & Dan Shiebler (Co-founders, Artemis)

    Inside Artemis' "AI vs AI" war | Shachar Hirshberg & Dan Shiebler (Co-founders, Artemis)
    Apr 21 2026
    In this episode of In Depth, First Round Partner Josh Kopelman sits down with Shachar Hirshberg and Dan Shiebler, co-founders of Artemis, the AI-native security platform that just emerged from stealth with $70M in combined seed and Series A funding. Shachar and Dan unpack how they built a 30-person team in seven months, why AI-native companies are outperforming their AI-enabled counterparts, and why they plan to stay on a texting basis with every customer, even at scale. In today's episode, we discuss: How to interview for AI fluency when building an AI-native startup Why founder-market fit is a critical early signal for startup success The surprising lesson Dan learned from founder-led sales How Dan and Shachar are instilling customer-obsession into Artemis’ culture How the two co-founders approach conflict and decision-making References: Abnormal: https://abnormal.ai Amazon Web Services (AWS): https://aws.amazon.com Anthropic: https://www.anthropic.com Artemis: https://artemissecurity.com CrowdStrike: https://www.crowdstrike.com Demisto (now Cortex XSOAR): https://www.paloaltonetworks.com/cortex/cortex-xsoar OpenAI: https://openai.com Palo Alto Networks: https://www.paloaltonetworks.com Todd Jackson: https://www.linkedin.com/in/toddj0/ Where to find Shachar Hirshberg: LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/shachar-hirshberg/ Where to find Dan Shiebler: LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/dan-shiebler-10219b42/ Where to find Josh: LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jkopelman/ Twitter/X: https://x.com/joshk Where to find First Round Capital: Website: https://firstround.com/ First Round Review: https://review.firstround.com/ Twitter/X: https://twitter.com/firstround YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@FirstRoundCapital This podcast on all platforms: https://review.firstround.com/podcast Timestamps: 00:00 Introduction 00:06 What Artemis does and why now 02:51 Shachar’s AWS and Palo Alto playbook 05:15 Dan’s founder journey: From Twitter to Abnormal 08:51 Why founder-market fit is critical for startups 11:38 Finding the right moment to take the leap and build 13:52 The hiring process that powers a startup in stealth 16:58 Building a team centered on AI capabilities 21:48 How AI implementation changes dashboard metrics 23:22 The ICP they chased and the one they ignored 26:44 The magic of closing the first customers 27:49 The surprising signals of early product-market fit 32:06 Critical lessons from founder-led sales 33:51 Why the first product should make founders uncomfortable 36:03 Hiring 30 people while still in stealth 42:08 “Should we be arguing more?” 43:37 How the AI security market is evolving 49:03 Why AI-native beats AI-enabled company structure 51:09 The most surprising moments as a first-time founder
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    57 min
  • Scaling DoorDash to market dominance | Christopher Payne (Former COO, DoorDash)

    Scaling DoorDash to market dominance | Christopher Payne (Former COO, DoorDash)
    Apr 17 2026
    In this latest episode of Executive Function, Brett sits down with Christopher Payne, who spent a decade as President and COO at DoorDash, helping scale the company from roughly 70 employees to the dominant food delivery platform in the US. Before DoorDash, Christopher held senior operating roles at Amazon and eBay, where he led a sweeping overhaul of marketplace search. In this conversation, he unpacks what it actually takes to run an atoms-based business versus a software company, shares his "plate spinning" framework for allocating executive attention across a complex org, and makes the case for top-down goal setting over the bottom-up alternative. In today's episode, we discuss: How prior industry experience can be a liability when you're trying to reinvent the market How executives can practically focus their attention to stay close to product details What charisma actually looks like in executives—and why it's a staple trait to have The business case for setting ambitious goals top-down, not bottom-up References: Amazon: https://www.amazon.com/ Anthropic: https://www.anthropic.com/ Cheesecake Factory: https://www.thecheesecakefactory.com/ Cursor: https://cursor.com/ Dartmouth College: https://home.dartmouth.edu/ David Risher: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jdavidrisher DoorDash: https://www.doordash.com/ eBay: https://www.ebay.com/ Granola: https://www.granola.ai/ Hulu: https://www.hulu.com/ Jason Kilar: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jasonkilar Jeff Bezos: https://x.com/JeffBezos Lyft: https://www.lyft.com/ Microsoft: https://www.microsoft.com/ Tinder: https://tinder.com/ Tony Xu: https://www.linkedin.com/in/xutony Travis Kalanick: https://www.linkedin.com/in/traviskalanick Uber: https://www.uber.com/ University of Oregon: https://www.uoregon.edu/ Wharton School: https://www.wharton.upenn.edu/ Where to find Christopher Payne: LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/christopherpayne Twitter/X: https://x.com/chrispa Where to find Brett: LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/brett-berson-9986094/ Twitter/X: https://twitter.com/brettberson Where to find First Round Capital: Website: https://firstround.com/ First Round Review: https://review.firstround.com/ Twitter/X: https://twitter.com/firstround YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@FirstRoundCapital This podcast on all platforms: https://review.firstround.com/podcast Timestamps: 00:00 Introduction 00:14 Why atoms businesses challenge bits executives 02:35 Hiring executives with a builder mentality 06:52 Great executives never outgrow the details 08:05 How ciabatta bread revealed a core DoorDash issue 10:48 How executives can scale their own impact 14:22 One-size-fits-all management is a myth 19:01 Enduring business lessons from Jeff Bezos 20:56 “I was fired from Tinder after six months” 25:38 Why specializing too early is a leadership trap 27:41 Are competitive cultures essential for success? 31:00 Lessons from Amazon’s hypergrowth 35:20 Why having industry experience can be a liability 38:46 Companies spend too much time on job interviews 40:19 The skills executives need for hypergrowth 43:34 Why AI will likely flatten organizations 45:20 Teaching COO 101: What it takes to be world-class 50:55 Why bottom-up goal setting kills ambition 55:29 How charismatic leaders help teams in tough times 58:23 The number-one sign of high-functioning executive teams 1:02:02 How first-time COOs can increase their chance of success
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    1 h et 2 min
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