Hello and welcome to a special episode of In Conversation with Nathalie Nahai – the podcast that explores our relationship with one another, with technology and with the animate world.

On this rare occasion, I have the pleasure of interviewing two friends of the podcast – Manda Scott and Rupert Read – about their powerful, compelling and practical new book, Transformative Adaptation.

A selection of essays by leading practitioners and pioneers this book lays out approaches for adaptation that work with, not against nature, and it is a theory and a practice, a community and an attitude, designed to support us in imagining and creating a flourishing future even in the jaws of adversity.

Rupert Read is an eco-philosopher, academic, author, campaigner, UK Green politician, and environmental activist. Having been a key spokesperson for the Extinction Rebellion movement, Rupert now dedicates his time to the Climate Majority Project as its Co-Director.

Manda Scott is a Thrutopian novelist, podcaster and smallholder. Formerly a veterinary surgeon, Manda’s novels have been shortlisted for the Orange Prize, the Edgar and the Saltire Award, and she has won the McIlvanney Prize. She is host of the popular Accidental Gods podcast, which showcases individuals and organisations at the emerging edge of our world, to set the foundation for a future we’d be proud to leave to the generations that come after us.

SUMMARY

In this conversation, Nathalie Nahai, Manda Scott, and Rupert Read explore the themes of collective awakening to climate risks, the importance of imagination in envisioning a flourishing future, and the vital role of art and creativity in shaping narratives. They discuss the necessity of community action for transformative adaptation and the significance of acknowledging despair as a pathway to empowerment. The conversation emphasises learning from the Global South's experiences and the evolving consciousness among politicians regarding climate realities. Ultimately, they call for individuals to recognise their power to influence change and to build a shared narrative of possibility for a sustainable future.

BOOK

• US edition of TrAd: https://www.penguinrandomhouse.com/books/801723/transformative-adaptation-by-edited-by-rupert-read-and-morgan-phillips-with-manda-scott/
• UK edition of TrAd: https://www.permanentpublications.co.uk/port/transformative-adaptation/

WEBSITES

• Edge Cities: https://www.edgecity.live/
• Edge City in California: https://www.edgeesmeralda.com/
• Our House (creating civil charters by Peoples’ Assemblies): https://ourhouseuk.org/
• OPUS in Sheffield: https://www.weareopus.org/

Rupert Read

• https://rupertread.net/
• https://climatemajorityproject.com/

Manda Scott

For the final episode of the season, I have the distinct pleasure of being in conversation with the renowned author, activist and friend of the podcast, Rob Hopkins.

Having interviewed him about his powerful book, From What Is to What If: Unleashing The Power Of Imagination To Create The Future We Want in episode 87, I had to invite him to return to the show to dive into his new, eagerly awaited sequel: How to Fall in Love with the Future: A Time Traveller’s Guide To Changing The World.

To give you a bit of background, Rob is the co-founder of Transition Town Totnes and the Transition Network, he has authored several titles including The Transition Handbook, The Transition Companion, The Power of Just Doing Stuff, and 21 Stories of Transition , and he presents the podcast series From What If to What Next.

In 2012, he was voted one of the Independent’s top 100 environmentalists and was on Nesta and the Observer’s list of Britain’s 50 New Radicals. Rob has also appeared on BBC Radio 4’s “Four Thought” and “A Good Read”, in the French film phenomenon Demain and its sequel Après Demain, and has spoken at TEDGlobal and three TEDx events.

An Ashoka Fellow, Rob also holds a doctorate degree from the University of Plymouth and has received two honorary doctorates from the University of the West of England and the University of Namur. In November 2022 he was made an Honorary Citizen of Liège in Belgium by the Mayor of the city. Rob runs ‘Imagination Catalyst’ trainings for organisations as diverse as Balenciaga, London Marathon Group, local councils and Museum Booster, he’s collaborated with musician Mr Kit on a project called Field Recordings from the Future, due out in 2025, and he is a keen gardener and a director of Totnes Community Development Society, the group behind Atmos Totnes, an ambitious, community-led development project.

Now, this season has been focusing heavily on AI – its impact in the world, how we develop it, how we approach it, discerning fact from fiction, uncovering some of the more existential questions, and figuring out how to chart a path forward that gives us back our sense of agency, creativity, imagination, and collective power. And so for me it felt really fitting to land this series speaking to Rob about his extraordinary ways in which we can really breathe ourselves into a future that is flourishing, beautiful and just. And to take that as a starting place, the fertile ground, from which to anchor any imagination around what technology and other aspects of life, could bring.

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A brief note: When we recorded this episode, there were road-works being carried out in the street outside - and while we’ve done our best to reduce the noise, I’m including a note here to flag that the audio drop outs in my voice are not due to Caro C’s work, but are the result of pre-editing carried out by someone else. I hope you’ll enjoy the episode nonetheless!

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SUMMARY

In this conversation, Rob Hopkins and Nathalie Nahai explore the importance of imagination and longing in activism. They discuss the need for community, the skepticism towards AI, and the power of collective action in creating a flourishing future. Rob shares insights from his book, 'How to Fall in Love with the Future,' emphasizing the significance of storytelling and social technologies in shaping a better world. The dialogue highlights the necessity of nurturing imagination and the potential for human beings to enact extraordinary change.

WEBSITES

Today I have the pleasure of speaking with a dear friend and one of the most extraordinary Realist Painters of our generation, Carl de Jager.

Born and raised in South Africa, Carl is a fine artist and co-founder of The Realist Painter, a project that delivers painting and drawing workshops across multiple European locations including Greece, Spain, Cyprus, and Austria, distilling years of classical training into highly focused learning experiences.

Having originally obtained a Bachelor of Arts with a major in Art History, Carl went on to have a successful career as a software engineer in Melbourne, and he later pivoted to pursue classical drawing and painting at the prestigious Barcelona Academy of Art.

A well loved and respected teacher and program coordinator, delivering instruction from fundamental drawing techniques to advanced painting methods, Carl also oversees specialised courses including Light and Form and Portrait programs.

I actually had the pleasure of being taught by Carl in person while studying at BAA, an experience which (as some of you may know), fundamentally changed the course of my life – prompting a change in country, an expanding of community, and a shifting of priorities that gave rise not only to this podcast and the Salons, but to my painting and music-making that are now at the heart of my daily life.

I’ve been wanting to bring Carl onto the show for a long while, especially since he brings such a unique, multifaceted approach to creativity, art and AI. It’s not often one gets the opportunity to speak to someone with such deep expertise in both art and technology, which is why this conversation was such a gift.

And another gift – if you’ve ever felt a call to paint or draw, The Realist Painter are hosting a really exciting collaborative workshop this September with one of the most celebrated painters of the contemporary art world, Scott Waddell, formerly from the Grand Central Academy in New York. This rare workshop will focus on the great 19th century master , Bouguereau, and it’s selling out fast – so if you’ve been holding back on your creative impulse and you want to experience the best teaching the art world has to offer, from some of the most sought-after artists, this is for you. I’ll put the links in the shownotes, or you can visit The Realist Painter.com.

SUMMARY

In this conversation, Carl and Nathalie explore the intersection of creativity and AI, discussing the nature and process of creativity and the implications of AI on artistic expression. They discuss the complexities of cultural gatekeeping, the future of art in an AI-driven world, and the challenges surrounding intellectual property. The dialogue highlights the importance of personal experience in creativity and the evolving role of technology in artistic practices.

LINKS

https://www.instagram.com/carldejager.art/

https://www.carldejager.com/

https://www.therealistpainter.com/

https://www.instagram.com/therealistpainter/

CHAPTERS

02:58 The Essence of Creativity

05:59 AI's Role in Artistic Expression

08:55 The Intersection of Human and AI Creativity

12:03 The Complexity of Artistic Creation

15:11 Cultural Gatekeeping in Art

17:52 The Future of Art and AI

21:06 Responsibility and Understanding AI's Impact

34:22 The Trust Crisis in Governance

36:18 Reconsidering Copyright and Intellectual Property

42:49 The Evolution of AI...

In today’s episode, I speak with Dr. Tomas Chamorro-Premuzic - Chief Innovation Officer at ManpowerGroup, Professor of Business Psychology at University College London and Columbia University, co-founder of deepersignals.com, and an associate at Harvard’s Entrepreneurial Finance Lab.

Tomas is the author of 12 books, including Why Do So Many Incompetent Men Become Leaders? (and How to Fix It), upon which his TED talk was based, and I, Human: AI, Automation, and the Quest to Reclaim What Makes Us Unique, and his next book (out this fall) is Don’t Be Yourself: Why Authenticity is Overrated and What to Do Instead – the link for which is in the shownotes below.

An international authority in people analytics, talent management, leadership development, and the human-AI interface, Tomas’ commercial work focuses on the creation of science-based tools that improve organizations' ability to predict performance, and people's ability to understand themselves. Having previously held academic positions at New York University and the London School of Economics, and lectured at Harvard Business School, Stanford Business School, London Business School, Johns Hopkins, IMD, and INSEAD, as well as being the CEO at Hogan Assessment Systems, Dr. Tomas has written over 200 scientific papers on the psychology of talent, leadership, innovation, and AI, making him one of the most prolific social scientists of his generation.

Over the past 20 years, Tomas has consulted for a range of clients across financial services, advertising, media, consumer goods, fashion, government and intergovernmental organizations. His media career comprises over 200 TV appearances, including on the BBC, CNN, TED, and Sky, and over 300 features in Harvard Business Review, the Guardian, Fast Company, Forbes, and the Huffington Post.

SUMMARY

In this conversation, Nathalie Nahai interviews Dr Tomas Chamorro-Premuzic about the impact of AI on creativity, authenticity, and the future of work. They discuss the dangers of over-reliance on technology, the need for critical thinking, and the importance of maintaining human connection in a digital age. The conversation highlights the evolving nature of creativity and the potential inequities that may arise from AI advancements, ultimately questioning what it means to be human in an increasingly synthetic world.

WEBSITES

https://www.drtomas.com/

deepersignals.com

BOOKS & RESOURCES

Don’t Be Yourself: Why Authenticity is Overrated and What to Do Instead - Tomas Chamorro-Premuzic (https://amzn.to/3FVAVV4)

Why Do So Many Incompetent Men Become Leaders? (and How to Fix It) - Tomas Chamorro-Premuzic (https://amzn.to/3G2Poys)

I, Human: AI, Automation, and the Quest to Reclaim What Makes Us Unique - Tomas Chamorro-Premuzic (https://amzn.to/4kPKc05)

TED Talk: Why Do So Many Incompetent Men Become Leaders? (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zeAEFEXvcBg)

CHAPTERS

02:50 Exploring Authenticity in a Digital Age

05:50 AI and the Future of Creativity

08:59 The Paradox of AI Dependence

11:53 Human Complexity vs. AI Limitations

14:54 The Impact of Technology on Society

17:49 The Counter-Trend of Digital Fatigue

20:49 The Role of AI in Job Automation

23:50 The Future of Work in an AI-Driven World

31:20 The Future of Work and AI's Role

37:50 Cognitive Overload and Information...

Today I have the absolute pleasure of being in conversation with a very dear friend, Dr Aaron Balick. A long-time companion of the podcast, Aaron is an internationally recognised psychotherapist, keynote speaker, author, and business and media consultant who applies depth-psychology to help people better understand themselves, business, and culture in the digital age.

Specialising in the psychological impact of technology, AI, and social media, Aaron translates complex ideas into accessible insights for professional development, leadership, and business transformation.

With over 20 years of clinical and academic experience, he’s one of the most scintillating, thought-provoking and wise thought-leaders I’ve encountered in my many years on the speaker circuit. He’s a sought after keynote speaker, renowned for his poignant and actionable insights about how we meet and grow through our challenges, understand human relational dynamics, and navigate the myriad ways in which technologies are shaping our inner and outer lives.

A trusted media contributor and long-time collaborator with the BBC, Aaron also has a regular psychology column at GQ and his broadcast work includes the BAFTA-nominated Suicide and Me, BBC Radio 1’s The Surgery, and Radio 4’s The Moral Maze and The Digital Human. His insights have been featured in The Guardian, Wired, Newsweek, and beyond.

SUMMARY

In this conversation, Nathalie Nahai and Dr Aaron Balick discuss the complexities of the global human psyche, exploring themes of fear, the impact of AI on therapy, and the nature of synthetic relationships. They discuss the challenges posed by technology in human connection, the polarization of society, and the need for economic and social change. The dialogue also touches on the importance of interpersonal relationships, the search for meaning in discomfort, and the role of myths in navigating contemporary challenges. Ultimately, they emphasize the necessity of grounding oneself in reality and fostering genuine connections to navigate the complexities of modern life.

WEBSITES

https://www.aaronbalick.com/

https://www.linkedin.com/in/draaronb/

https://www.gq-magazine.co.uk/profile/aaron-balick

BOOKS & RESOURCES

The Little Book of Calm: Tame Your Anxieties, Face Your Fears, and Live Free – Dr Aaron Balick (https://www.aaronbalick.com/books)

The Psychodynamics of Social Networking: Connected-up instantaneous culture and the self – Dr Aaron Balick

(https://www.aaronbalick.com/books)

The Trading Game: A Confession – Gary Stevenson (https://www.penguinrandomhouse.com/books/727417/the-trading-game-by-gary-stevenson/)

CHAPTERS

02:18 The Impact of AI on Therapy

05:28 Navigating Polarization and Media Influence

08:13 The Role of Community in Addressing Loneliness

11:15 The Dangers of Synthetic Relationships

14:25 The Importance of Pain in Growth

17:18 Philosophical Perspectives on Free Will and Relationships

29:57 The Nature of AI Relationships

30:52 Human Consciousness and Algorithms

33:33 Exploring the Unconscious Mind

37:35 The...

In this episode, I speak with Adam Hawkins – a Recruitment Industry Advisor, Strategic International Sales Leader and Non-Executive Director at LinkedIn.

A strategic thought leader and keynote speaker, Adam partners with the recruitment industry to shape talent solutions that augment opportunities on offer for workers in a dynamic, fast-changing world.

With 25 years of experience in executive roles across the full recruitment and talent ecosystem, Adam has advised on strategy, served on company boards, and led international high-performing teams across diverse global markets. Having joined LinkedIn seven years ago as an industry champion, Adam supports recruitment clients to deliver greater value in hiring, learning, and employee engagement alongside the world's largest professional network.

In his current role, he works to inspire and influence the future of talent by embracing new technologies and bringing people together to drive powerful dialogue as the industry shapes the road ahead.

SUMMARY

In this conversation, Adam Hawkins and Nathalie Nahai explore the rapid transformation driven by technology, particularly AI. They discuss the anxiety professionals face due to the pace of change, the role of AI in augmenting human tasks, and the importance of maintaining human agency in an increasingly automated world. The conversation also highlights the tools available for enhancing productivity, the essential human skills needed for the future, and the common mistakes organizations make in adopting AI. Ultimately, they emphasize the need for a balanced approach to technology that fosters creativity and human connection while navigating the challenges and opportunities presented by AI.

WEBSITES

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/adamlawrencehawkins/

AI TOOLS

· Glean (note taking study tool) - https://glean.co/

· Gong (revenue intelligence platform) - https://www.gong.io/revenue-ai/

· Otter (for meetings, transcripts, summaries) - https://otter.ai/

· Google Notebook LM (summaries, note taking, research) - https://notebooklm.google/

· Gamma (design presentations, websites, social media posts) - https://gamma.app/

· HeyGen (AI video generator) - https://www.heygen.com/

CHAPTERS

00:49 The Global Human Psyche and Transformation

05:09 Anxiety in the Age of AI

09:59 The Role of AI in Work and Creativity

19:03 Tools for the Future: Embracing Technology

31:04 Finding Balance: Human Skills and AI Integration

32:23 Human-Centric Skills in a Tech-Driven World

37:18 Navigating Mistakes in Technology Adoption

43:02 The Importance of Workforce Strategy and Reskilling

49:11 Balancing AI Use with Human Capabilities

01:01:30 The Future of AI: Opportunities and Risks

Today, I’m delighted to speak with a truly exceptional guest - Caroline Chubb Calderon. A strategic advisor, futurist, humanist and executive “future coach”, Caroline is one of these remarkable leaders whose expertise and skill are deeply rooted in the ground of compassion, care and love for the living world.

Devoted to reimagining the future of humanity in the age of intelligent machines, her work focuses on the roles we humans can play in the coming redefinition of human-machine relationships, what it means to be human in a world of limitless algorithms, the future of work and society, and, most especially, how we might develop leaders to lead this revolution with integrity, ethics and a view towards multi-generational benefit.

With her team at HelloHumanity, Caroline works with future-shapers to enhance the qualities of humanity that are so critical at this juncture in the development of AI – those qualities that will continue to set us apart from robots, machines and algorithms, including ethical and moral decision-making, imagination, socio-emotional intelligence, and daring and visionary leadership.

Having spoken at TEDx and on prominent stages around the world, Caroline is actively involved with IEEE’s working groups defining the standards for Ethical AI, and she has contributed to two seminal books on disruptive leadership. She has also worked with some of the most imaginative organizations on the planet, guest lectured at many top MBA schools and leadership forums, and won awards for her work with Fortune 100 clients.

Caroline is also a senior meditation teacher and brings the ethics of western and eastern wisdom into her work. She fuses together the fields of innovation, emotional intelligence, mindfulness, ethics, purpose-driven leadership, behavioral science, and neuroscience to prepare executives to take their most important helm — to lead for humanity.

SUMMARY

In this conversation, Caroline Chubb Calderon and Nathalie Nahai explore the complexities of the global human psyche amidst rapid technological transformation. They discuss the importance of introspection, the need for collective action, and the role of technology in fostering human connection. The dialogue emphasizes empathy, compassion, and community as essential elements for navigating the challenges posed by AI and other disruptive forces. They envision a flourishing future that prioritizes regenerative economic models, equitable governance, and a deep understanding of interconnection within nature. Ultimately, they call for a shift in consciousness towards right relationships with life and a commitment to nurturing the planet and each other.

WEBSITES

https://www.carolinechubbcalderon.com/

https://www.hellohumanity.com/

BOOKS & RESOURCES

The AI Con (https://thecon.ai/) – Dr. Emily M. Bender & Dr. Alex Hanna

The Children’s Fire (https://amzn.to/4dnP0GT) – Mac McCartney

CHAPTERS

03:08 Introspection vs. Collective Action

06:05 The Role of Compassion in Action

08:43 Reconnecting with Nature and Community

11:55 Imagining a Flourishing Future with AI

14:52 Rethinking Economic Models in the Age of AI

28:12 The Power Dynamics of AI and Governance

29:33 Democracy in the Age of AI

31:17 Envisioning a Council of Life

33:48 The Ethical Implications of AI Technology

36:07 Transforming Power...

In this episode, I speak with Caroline Carruthers, an award-winning data expert and co-founder of global data consultancy Carruthers and Jackson. She was one of the first women to take on the role of Chief Data Officer in the UK public sector for Network Rail and has worked across multiple industries to build data capability from the ground up, delivering real change to each organisation around how they valued their data as an asset.

Caroline has authored several best-selling books on the role of data in organisations, including the renowned “Chief Data Officer’s Playbook” and the bestselling “Data Driven Business Transformation.”

Working alongside her co-author, and co-founder of Carruthers and Jackson, Peter Jackson, Caroline now consults public, private and charity sector organisations around the world on how to get the most out of their data.

Caroline was named one of the top 20 inspirational female role models in data by The Female Lead in 2018 and won Computing’s Rising Stars Entrepreneur of the Year Award in 2020 for her work consulting major international organisations on their data operations.

SUMMARY

In this conversation, Nathalie Nahai and Caroline Carruthers explore the evolving role of data and AI in society, discussing the balance between information overload and meaningful insights. They discuss the ethical implications of data usage, the importance of human oversight in AI, and the need for transparency in data sharing. The dialogue also touches on creativity, the relationship between art and technology, and the significance of curiosity in navigating the complexities of modern life. Ultimately, they emphasise the importance of finding beauty and meaning in both the creative process and the challenges we face in a data-driven world.

WEBSITES

https://carruthersandjackson.com/

https://www.linkedin.com/in/caroline-carruthers-22b9423/

BOOKS & RESOURCES

The AI Con (https://thecon.ai/) - Emily M. Bender and Alex Hanna

Factfulness (https://amzn.to/4jW5Yyc) – Hans Rosling

Eloise Gillow - https://www.eloisegillow.com/about

Blanche Ellis - https://blancheellis.com/

CHAPTERS

00:00 Introduction to Data and Ethics

01:34 The Evolution of Data Usage

04:32 The Global Human Psyche and Data

07:38 The Dilemma of Information Overload

10:28 AI and Human Productivity

13:42 Challenges in AI Adoption

16:38 Understanding AI Tools

19:38 Ethics and AI in Healthcare

22:34 The Trolley Problem and AI Ethics

32:06 Navigating AI in Traffic Situations

33:58 Human Empathy vs. AI Decision-Making

35:00 Anthropomorphizing AI: The Risks and Realities

37:14 The Importance of Human Oversight in AI

38:59 Curiosity as a Key to AI Understanding

41:19 Creating Space for Creativity in Organizations