What if the marketer who's visited 39 countries has discovered the secret to building teams that thrive across time zones and cultures?

Aimen Chouchane went from government advisory to leading marketing at Uptick, serving the fire protection industry across four continents. While other marketers chase generic SaaS playbooks, Aimen discovered his niche audience doesn't live on LinkedIn all day—they're out in the field keeping buildings safe.

Want to know the Wi-Fi research trick that saved his biggest deal? Or how a portable second screen revolutionized his work-travel balance? Aimen shares both.

But wait until you hear about Uptick's mission-driven approach—a company that actually helps keep people safe rather than just peddling software. The philosophy? You'll discover why Aimen refuses to work anywhere that doesn't make the world better.

This isn't your typical marketing interview about funnels and attribution. Discover how a leader blends Tunisian heritage, British pragmatism, and global perspective into marketing strategies that actually work for real people doing real jobs.

"You really can't be a marketer in 2025 if you're not using data... but you still have to use some gut instincts and make some creative calls."

- Aimen Chouchane

• The Country Collector - At 38 turning 39, Aimen's obsessed with keeping his travel count above his age. Currently at 39 countries, he's racing against time—literally. One pandemic slip-up and he was behind, but now he's back on track and plotting his next passport stamp.
• The Wedding Deal Maker - Forget LinkedIn networking events. Aimen's biggest career move happened with a beer in hand at someone's wedding. One friend's startup pitch over cocktails turned into eight years of SaaS marketing madness across four continents.
• The Istanbul Internet Survivor - Nothing teaches you Wi-Fi paranoia like getting yelled at by your boss during a dropped Zoom call. Now Aimen stalks Booking.com reviews searching for "wifi" mentions before booking anything. Turkey taught him the hard way that great download doesn't mean great upload.
• The Rio Sunset Enforcer - Most people say "work-life balance." Aimen says "work until Rio sunset, then beach." His productivity hack? Hard stops that force you to actually finish things instead of pretending to work until midnight.
• The Time Zone Referee - Managing Aussies, Brits, and Americans means someone's always awake and wanting to Slack you. Aimen's solution? Aggressively telling people to stop working after hours because apparently being a good boss means being the productivity police.

[02:30] The Global Marketing Advantage

How traveling to 39 countries transformed Aimen's understanding of customers and cultures. While other marketers rely on personas, Aimen draws from real human experiences across continents to build marketing that resonates with actual people, not demographic data.

[08:15] The Accidental SaaS Journey

From politics degree to government advisory to tech policy consulting, Aimen's career took an unexpected turn when LinkedIn became a client. The revelation that massive companies started as "ideas on a whiteboard" sparked his obsession with early-stage chaos and building something from nothing.

[15:20] Mission-Driven Marketing at Uptick

Why Aimen chose to market fire protection software instead of chasing trendy consumer apps. Uptick keeps public buildings safe by helping companies manage thousands of assets digitally—work that actually matters beyond quarterly metrics and vanity growth.

[20:45] Marketing as Science + Art

Aimen's philosophy on...

What if the CMO who calls himself "just a simple guy" has cracked the marketing code that's stumping industry leaders?

Christian Kunkel went from asking "What's a GRP?" to leading Fingercheck through the saturated payroll software market. While other CMOs chase growth hacks, Christian discovered customers were finding them through ChatGPT — not Google or ads. This revelation completely shifted his team's approach to customer discovery.

In this episode, Charlene Ormo interviews Christian Kunkel, a strategic mind who's not just building marketing systems, but reshaping how small businesses thrive. As CMO of Fingercheck, he's leading the charge in making payroll, HR, and financial flexibility accessible for the people who power our economy. But beneath the strategy is a mission rooted in empathy, resilience, and hard-won lessons.

This isn't your typical CMO interview about funnels and attribution. Discover how a marketing leader cut through the noise by returning to what most of us forgot — and the tactics making it work today.

• The GRP Mystery Detective - Day one in marketing: "Go fill a box with GRPs." Christian spent hours wandering the office asking "What's a GRP?" only to discover it was an elaborate prank.
• Jets Obsession Level: Maximum - This die-hard Jets fan believes if they win a Super Bowl in his lifetime, his legacy is complete (right after being a great dad and husband).
• The Support Call Crasher - While other CMOs chose strategy meetings, Christian secretly joins customer support calls for raw marketing gold you can't find anywhere else.
• Comic Book Marketing Genius - Christian literally drew a comic book to explain boring location data because apparently PowerPoints weren't cutting it. Did it generate millions? Of course not. Did customers think it was amazing? Absolutely. Because sometimes the best marketing ideas sound completely ridiculous until they work.
• The Homebody with a Famous Wife - Married to a Jennifer Lopez (not that Jennifer Lopez), Christian prefers quiet nights at home over the hustle and bustle. While the world chases the spotlight, he's found his superpower in the comfort of his living room.

[01:23] The Simplicity Superpower

Why Christian's approach to breaking down complex problems is his secret weapon in a world of marketing complexity. While other CMOs get lost in sophisticated frameworks, Christian's "simple guy" method cuts through the noise to find solutions that actually work.

[06:02] The Mentorship Multiplier

How the right guidance transformed Christian's career and why he's obsessed with paying it forward. Christian reveals the specific advice that changed everything for him and how he's using it to build unstoppable marketing teams.

[07:13] The Support Call Gold Mine

How secretly listening to customer support calls gives Christian marketing insights that million-dollar research can't buy. While other CMOs stay in their ivory towers, Christian gets on the frontlines to hear what customers really think.

[09:00] The "Feel Smarter" Formula

Christian's counterintuitive definition of good marketing that most CMOs get backwards. Instead of overwhelming prospects with features, he discovered the psychological trigger that makes customers want to buy without feeling sold...

Ever wonder if the key to SaaS success isn't about chasing every new growth hack, but about getting back to basics? Things like showing up, leading by example, and never forgetting that at the end of the day, people buy from people?

That's exactly what Charlene Ormo explores in this episode of Humans Behind the Metrics with Scott Nazdan, Vice President of Product Marketing and Strategic Communications at Panopto. Scott is a seasoned marketing and sales leader who calls himself a "player-coach," and he lives by one core belief: genuine human connection is the foundation of everything.

Scott's journey is truly inspiring. He took Ensemble Video from its early "guerrilla marketing" days in 2007 all the way to a successful acquisition by Panopto in 2020. Imagine a 15-year ride, pushing through constant market education, competitive battles, and the challenge of being ahead of the curve in a market that didn't even realize it needed video management solutions yet!

But here's why Scott's story stands out: He's not just another SaaS executive with a typical "hockey-stick" growth narrative. As a former Division I baseball athlete, he brings that same competitive fire, team-first mentality, and "practice when nobody's watching" work ethic to every single business challenge.

Now at Panopto, he's scaling those very principles, skillfully balancing the raw entrepreneurial hustle with the structure needed to compete in the big leagues. And if that's not enough, he's also a digital marketing professor at Syracuse University and hosts the "Learning Never Stops" podcast. He's someone who genuinely believes the best leaders are right there in the trenches with their teams.

If you're grappling with how to blend your instincts with established systems, maintain your raw drive within a corporate framework, or scale your business while keeping that personal touch, this conversation is your essential playbook.

"There is no secret pill for being great. It really is very simple in sports and in business. It's about the values and how you lead and how you operate daily and consistently. And that usually just means leading by example."

- Scott Nazdan

• The Division I Dreamer. Scott spent years dedicated to baseball, becoming a Division I athlete with professional aspirations — until his body and reality taught him that his real playing field would be business, not baseball.
• The Accidental Entrepreneur. Started in K-12 education, taught himself web design and video production, and stumbled into solving a massive problem in higher education that would become his life's work for 15 years.
• The Digital Deal: How Scott Nadzan Signed Away Ensemble Video with 75 Clicks During COVID. After 15 years of building Ensemble Video, Scott "sold" his company by clicking DocuSign file 75 times during COVID — no handshakes, no champagne, just digital signatures and tears of accomplishment.
• The Professor-Practitioner. While building and scaling his company, Scott has been teaching digital marketing at Syracuse University, staying connected to the next generation of marketers and keeping his skills sharp.
• The 4 AM Warrior. Scott's morning routine starts at 4-5 AM, getting ahead of the day to be productive and ready to serve others when "the bullets are flying" during business hours.

[00:02:54] The Sport of Business Mindset:

How Scott's Division I baseball background shaped his competitive business approach, applying sports values and Mark Cuban's "sport of business" framework to leadership. Greatness comes from consistent daily values and leading by example.

[00:10:38] Guerrilla Marketing for Startups:

Master the...

What if the secret to AI success isn't about being more machine-like — but about being more authentically human?

In this episode of Humans Behind the Metrics, Charlene Ormo sits down with Saren Sakurai, a creative strategist with a rare blend of left-brain clarity and right-brain magic. He's helped early-stage startups find their voice and guided SaaS companies through pivots that actually work.

But here's what most people don't know: Saren spent over a decade architecting award-winning campaigns for Fortune 100 brands like Coca-Cola, Sony Pictures, and Cisco — launching Sprite's digital presence and reimagining how massive brands connect with people.

Now, he's applying that same creative firepower to AI. Not just as a tool, but as a mindset.

Saren shares why treating AI like a relationship (not a transaction) changes everything, how to infuse humanity into automated processes, and why going broad beats going deep in the age of artificial intelligence.

If you're trying to figure out where AI fits in your growth strategy without losing your soul — this episode breaks it all down.

"Don't believe the hype. Think about the practical. The more you use it, the more you'll see that there's just a certain point where it can't pass humans."

- Saren Sakurai

Meet Saren Sakurai -- In 5 Fun Facts

• Solid background in Liberal Arts

Saren's father was a liberal arts teacher, and that broad foundation shaped his entire approach — leading him to become one of the most cognitively diverse marketers in tech today.

• The Nike Connection.

After two years in Japan, Saren set his sights on Nike and spent months trying to get in the door. His persistence paid off, leading to work during the Sydney Olympics with the best creative minds in the industry.

• Fortune 100 Campaign Architect.

Before AI was even a buzzword, Saren was building integrated digital campaigns for massive brands — launching Sprite's digital presence and reimagining Miracle Whip's entire brand experience.

• Early AI Adopter.

Saren got his AI education working at Cylance, one of the first companies to apply AI to cybersecurity, giving him years of behind-the-scenes experience before ChatGPT hit the scene.

• The Relationship Builder.

For Saren, AI isn't about transactions — it's about building genuine working relationships with intelligent tools that remember, learn, and grow alongside you.

[02:30] - From Liberal Arts to Marketing: The Power of Going Broad

Discover how Saren's diverse educational background became his secret weapon in navigating everything from Nike campaigns to AI strategy — and why breadth beats depth in today's rapidly changing landscape.

[08:45] - The Nike Journey: Breaking Into the Big Leagues

Learn about Saren's persistence in landing his dream job at Nike, and the valuable advice he received about "playing in the minor leagues" before making it to the majors.

[12:20] - Early AI Exposure: Learning from the Inside Out

Explore Saren's experience at Cylance, where he got an inside look at AI applications in cybersecurity long before the current AI boom — and how that shaped his practical approach.

[18:10] - Beyond the Hype: The Reality of AI Implementation

Cut through the fear and overhype surrounding AI with Saren's grounded perspective on what AI can and can't do, and why humans remain central to the equation.

[29:40] - The RAG Revolution: Training AI on Your...

What if hitting your first million isn’t just about the numbers — but about the people behind them?

In this episode of Humans Behind the Metrics, Charlene Ormo chats with Gus Byleveld, Chief Revenue Officer at JourneyApps, to explore the often-overlooked human side of reaching $1M in sales.

Instead of focusing on sales tactics and funnels, they talk about what really drives growth — understanding your buyers, building real relationships, and meeting people where they are. Gus shares how empathy, self-awareness, and honest reflection create a strong foundation for a business that lasts.

This isn’t your usual sales conversation.

Gus opens up about what it’s like to lead with heart in the fast-paced, high-pressure world of tech — and why a human-centered approach matters more than ever in a cutthroat industry.

If you’re a founder or leader who believes that behind every metric is a story — this one’s for you.

Let’s dive in.

Meet Gus Byleveld – In 5 Fun Facts

• From Blueprints to Business Deals. Gus didn’t start in sales — he actually began his career in architecture! But curiosity (and a big leap of faith) led him into the world of tech, where he’s now the Chief Revenue Officer at JourneyApps.

• South Africa to the U.S. Born and raised in South Africa, Gus moved to the U.S. to test his skills in one of the most competitive markets in tech. Talk about growth mindset!

• “I Speak Funny” That’s Gus’s way of breaking the ice. His accent? He owns it — and uses it to spark conversations, build trust, and lighten the mood in high-stakes meetings.

• Big Problems, Clear Solutions. With 20+ years in enterprise software, Gus has a reputation for untangling complex business problems with calm, clarity, and confidence.

• People Over Process. For Gus, success isn’t just about the numbers. He believes in the power of real relationships and a human-centered approach — even in a cutthroat industry.

[02:15] - From Blueprints to Breakthroughs: Gus’s Journey from Architecture to Tech

Discover how Gus Byleveld made the leap from a career in architecture to the fast-paced world of technology—and how this pivot shaped the way he sees systems, strategy, and people.

[05:35] - Moving to the U.S.: Challenges and Opportunities.

Gain insights into Gus's decision to move to the U.S. and the challenges he faced in building a network from scratch.

[09:40] - Why Solving Problems is the Heart of Business Development

More than just a sales function, Gus shares how approaching business development as problem-solving deepens client relationships and creates meaningful, long-term impact.

[21:55] - “Meet them where they are’: Earning Trust in High-Stakes Sales

Gus breaks down how he builds trust and rapport with clients—and why emotional intelligence is just as critical as closing techniques in complex sales.

[27:12 - The Hero Sale: When Founders Become the Face of the Deal

Unpack the “hero sale” concept and how founders play a unique, irreplaceable role in early-stage growth and customer buy-in.

[32:20] - Turning Data Into Direction

Explore how Gus uses data—not just to track metrics, but to guide strategy, optimize performance, and stay aligned with what actually drives revenue.

[45:09] - Scaling with...

What if the numbers you rely on are telling only half the story?

In this powerful episode of Humans Behind the Metrics, Charlene Ormo sits down with Karen Chalmers of interVal to uncover the overlooked human side of business valuation.

Going beyond the numbers, they uncover the vital human elements – your story, your people, and your mission – demonstrating how these create a more holistic picture of true business worth that traditional metrics alone cannot provide.

This isn't just another conversation about business. It's a profound reframing of how founders and businesses—at every stage—can recognize their true worth through a more human, intentional, and empathetic lens.

Discover what your dashboards aren't telling you about the real value of what you've built.

Let’s dive in.

• From Film Sets to Financial Tech

Karen’s career path isn’t a straight line — it’s a creative “jungle gym” of filmmaking, graphic design, and marketing. This eclectic background fuels her genius for storytelling and gives her a unique lens on business that numbers alone can’t explain.

• VP with a Mission

As the Vice President of Marketing and Partnerships at interVal, Karen helps small business owners understand the true value of their business — not just the numbers, but the story behind them.

• Advocate for Early Valuation

Karen is driven by one powerful belief: business owners deserve to know their worth before it's too late. Her work focuses on proactive valuation — empowering leaders with clarity, confidence, and the ability to plan ahead.

• ‘Your Story Matters.’

For Karen, stories aren’t fluff — they’re the heartbeat of every business. She helps founders uncover their narrative, shape it with purpose, and use it to connect, lead, and grow.

• Joy in the Journey

What fuels Karen? Joy, meaning, and alignment. She believes success is found not just in revenue, but in creating work that feels right — where people, purpose, and performance all come together.

[02:35] - Who is Karen: Her Identity as a Storyteller.

Dive into Karen's core identity as a storyteller and discover how this perspective not only shapes her personal journey but also influences her professional journey.

[04:08] - Karen's Unique Career Path: A Journey of Adaptability and Growth. Explore Karen's non-linear career journey, highlighting her diverse experiences in filmmaking, graphic design, and marketing, and learn how adaptability and resilience has been key to her career.

[07:25] - Navigating Change: The Power of Resilience and Pivots in Career. Gain insights into the importance of resilience and learn effective strategies for navigating career changes, as Karen shares her personal experiences of overcoming challenges.

[10:43] - Finding Your Way: Clarity, Inner Peace, and Grace in Transition. Understand how Karen navigated her journey to uncover her next steps in both life and career, focusing on the themes of clarity, inner peace, and grace during times of transition.

[15:56] - Discovering Karen's "Why": Business, Purpose, and Joy.

Learn about Karen's mission to empower business owners and consultants through Interval, and discover what truly brings her joy in both her professional...

Are you tired of the same old metrics-driven conversations in the SaaS world? What if I told you that behind every number, there's a story waiting to be told?

Hosted by Charlene Ormo, SaaS Growth Architect and founder of LEADX Media, this podcast goes beyond the surface of dashboards, acquisition targets, and CAC reductions. It’s a space created to bring heart back into business conversations and highlight the people behind the metrics.

The very first episode of Humans Behind the Metrics sets the tone for what’s to come — a raw, unfiltered exploration of the human side of SaaS growth.

While the SaaS world is filled with content promising funnel hacks and revenue secrets, Humans Behind the Metrics aims to fill a different gap: the human one.

After years in boardrooms and marketing war rooms, Charlene kept asking a question many founders and marketers quietly wonder: “Where’s the human in all this?” That question sparked the birth of this podcast.

This isn’t just another growth playbook. Humans Behind the Metrics podcast pulls back the curtain on SaaS success, revealing the doubts, pivots, burnout, reinventions, and breakthroughs that often go untold.

At its core, the show explores the tension between performance and presence, shining a light on the inner work that fuels outer results.

Listeners will hear from SaaS leaders, marketers, founders, operators, and even voices outside the industry — because real growth stories don’t live in tidy silos. Expect conversations that touch on family life, hobbies, legacy, burnout, and purpose.

Here’s what makes Humans Behind the Metrics stand out:

• Raw, unscripted conversations
• Stories of scaling, burnout, self-doubt, and transformation
• Reflections and insights pulled straight from the trenches
• Episodes that embrace both structure and beautiful messiness
• A steady reminder: you are not alone in this journey

Charlene has been in marketing since the age of 17, helping companies scale fast — sometimes too fast. Along the way, she’s learned that hitting metrics and achieving massive growth can still leave founders and teams feeling unfulfilled.

This podcast is a call to remember that behind every metric, there’s a human story — one worth telling.

So for anyone who’s ever wondered, “Is this all there is?” or “Am I the only one feeling this way?” — this podcast offers connection, perspective, and reassurance.

• Linkedin: https://www.linkedin.com/in/charleneormo
• To learn more about LEADX Media visit https://www.leadxmedia.co/

Behind every scalable metric…is a human story no dashboard can tell.

This is Humans Behind The Metrics.

I’m Charlene Ormo — SaaS Growth Architect, founder of LEADX Media (the company behind this podcast), and your host.

This podcast is where we pull back the curtain on SaaS growth — not through polished case studies or fancy funnel breakdowns (although we will have those too)… but through the real, raw stories of the people behind it all.

The missed targets. The late-night pivots. The identity shifts. The moments that nearly broke them — and the ones that rebuilt them.

If you’ve ever looked at the numbers and thought, “There’s more to this than just strategy” — you’re right.

This is where the humans behind those metrics get seen, heard, and understood.

Ways to connect with Charlene Ormo

• Linkedinhttps://www.linkedin.com/in/charleneormo
• To learn more about LEADX Media visit https://www.leadxmedia.co/