Erika Gangsei has run the interpretive media team at SFMOMA for nearly two decades, and for 15 of those years she's been quietly building one of the most coherent game-based programming initiatives inside any major cultural institution in the country.

In this conversation, we get into the origins of Play SFMOMA, which launched in 2011, before games as an art form had any real institutional legitimacy, and what it actually took to sustain a program built on deliberate experimentation rather than proven outcomes. Erika talks about the decision to treat game designers the way SFMOMA treats sound artists and filmmakers: as essential creative collaborators, not afterthoughts. She makes a sharp distinction between gamification (which museums were chasing then, and still are) and authentic game-based programming — and explains why that difference matters for visitors.

We also talk about the institutional immune system. Erika uses the phrase literally: museums have white blood cells that attack unfamiliar things, and Play SFMOMA has spent 15 years slowly inoculating SFMOMA to interactivity. That means running an AR game jam knowing none of the prototypes would go into production, because the goal was to socialize the idea internally, not ship a product.

Other topics: why interpretive departments may actually be a better entry point for games than curatorial, the case for analog and paper-based work in a screen-fatigued world, what it means when a founder-driven program finally becomes an entity unto itself, and the LARPocracy research project—an EU Horizon-funded study using Nordic LARP as a model for deliberative democracy.

This one is essential listening if you're inside an institution trying to build something with games and doing it without a clear mandate from above.

• (00:00) - Meet Erika and Play
• (01:08) - Broadway Trip Catch Up
• (03:19) - Origin Story to SFMOMA
• (08:14) - Why Play SFMOMA Started
• (13:38) - Where Games Belong
• (29:01) - Analog Play and Fatigue
• (34:48) - Scaling Up and Larpocracy

Jamin Warren founded Gameplayarts, an advisory that helps museums and cultural organizations engage with the world of gaming. He provides them with the research, strategy, and execution they need to reach gamers for the first–or millionth–time. Gameplayarts’ past and present clients organizations like MoMA, the Getty Research Institute, Tribeca Enterprises, and PBS.

Casey Baltes led the effort to build the Tribeca Games Festival from the ground up—and she'll tell you the hardest part wasn't the games. It was building internal credibility. In this episode, we talk about curation, community, and why institutions that try to do everything in games end up doing nothing well.

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Jamin Warren founded Gameplayarts, an advisory that helps museums and cultural organizations engage with the world of gaming. He provides them with the research, strategy, and execution they need to reach gamers for the first–or millionth–time. Gameplayarts’ past and present clients organizations like MoMA, the Getty Research Institute, Tribeca Enterprises, and PBS.

Casey Baltes, VP of Games at Tribeca Enterprises, breaks down why most institutional game-based programs stall — and the structural decisions that have made Tribeca Games one of the few that hasn't. We get into executive buy-in, curatorial focus, the case for interpretive content over exhibitions, and why financial sustainability is the conversation no one in the cultural sector wants to have.

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Jamin Warren founded Gameplayarts, an advisory that helps museums and cultural organizations engage with the world of gaming. He provides them with the research, strategy, and execution they need to reach gamers for the first–or millionth–time. Gameplayarts’ past and present clients organizations like MoMA, the Getty Research Institute, Tribeca Enterprises, and PBS.

Most cultural institutions know games matter. Very few know what to do about it. Kristian Volsing is one of the people who figured it out — and built the path in real time.

As part of the V&A's contemporary design team, Kristian co-curated Design/Play/Disrupt, one of the most significant museum exhibitions ever dedicated to game design. He navigated studio NDAs, convinced the National Gallery of Art to lend a Magritte for a game show, and flew a colleague to Kyoto — where Nintendo showed her exactly one meeting room.

In this conversation, we go deep on what it actually takes to build a sustainable games program inside a cultural institution: why live events beat collection-building as a starting point, how to work with an industry that guards its IP fiercely, and what experimental game designers actually need from institutions like yours. If you're a champion inside an organization who sees the opportunity but doesn't yet have the authority to act on it — this one is for you.

• (00:00) - Why Cultural Institutions Can't Afford to Ignore Games Anymore
• (01:36) - Kristian Volsing's Path From Film Student to V&A Curator
• (05:27) - How a New Director Opened the Door for Digital Design at the V&A
• (09:20) - Inside Design/Play/Disrupt: Why Depth Beats the "50 Games on a Wall" Approach
• (17:32) - Nintendo, NDAs, and What It Actually Takes to Partner With Game Studios
• (27:55) - The Hard Truth About Collecting and Preserving Digital Work
• (40:50) - Where Your Institution Should Start: Practical Advice From Someone Who Built the Path

Jamin Warren founded Gameplayarts, an advisory that helps museums and cultural organizations engage with the world of gaming. He provides them with the research, strategy, and execution they need to reach gamers for the first–or millionth–time. Gameplayarts’ past and present clients organizations like MoMA, the Getty Research Institute, Tribeca Enterprises, and PBS.

Hey there -- if you subscribed to the Twofivesix podcast, we've made some changes to our focus. I'm working with museums, collections, galleries, and cultural orgs on the same big problems I used to help corporate clients with. Hope you enjoy!

What does it actually take to exhibit game-based art in a museum? Beyond the romantic notion of "games as art" lies a complex reality of technical requirements, development timelines, and institutional infrastructure that most cultural organizations simply aren't prepared for.

Today, I'm speaking with Theo Triantafyllidis, an artist who builds what he calls "performative systems where natural and synthetic intelligences rehearse their coexistence." Working with games, live simulations, performances, and installations, Theo creates darkly playful procedural worlds that turn phenomena like ecological collapse and networked desire into experiences that can be felt rather than verbally explained.

Theo has exhibited at major institutions including the Whitney Museum, Centre Pompidou, and was part of the Venice Biennale's Hyper Pavilion. His work ranges from Pastoral, an intimate anti-game about a muscular orc running through an infinite hayfield, to Feral Metaverse, an ambitious eight-player multiplayer game with a custom medieval catapult rig that's been in development for over three years.

In this conversation, we go deep on the practical realities of exhibiting interactive work: Why IT staff aren't the same as technical infrastructure. How institutions fund physical installations but not digital development, or vice versa. Why a game that takes two weeks to build might tour internationally while a three-year project struggles to find the right venue. And what it means when audiences bring their player psychology into the gallery space—that instinct to test boundaries and break systems that makes games fundamentally different from other art forms.

If you're a cultural institution thinking about game-based programming, an artist navigating this landscape, or simply curious about what happens when the art world meets interactive media, this conversation offers a rare, unvarnished look at what it really takes to do this work well.

• (00:00) - The Infrastructure Gap: Why Museums Can't Show Interactive Work
• (00:43) - Theo Triantafyllidis on Building Performative Systems
• (01:30) - Beyond IT: What Game-Based Art Actually Requires
• (03:55) - The Funding Paradox: Digital vs. Physical Production
• (08:59) - Technical Realities: Maintenance, Testing, and Player Psychology
• (15:39) - Case Studies: From Two-Week Prototypes to Three-Year Developments
• (25:41) - Building Institutional Literacy for Game-Based Practice

Jamin Warren founded Gameplayarts, an advisory that helps museums and cultural organizations engage with the world of gaming. He provides them with the research, strategy, and execution they need to reach gamers for the first–or millionth–time. Gameplayarts’ past and present clients organizations like MoMA, the Getty Research Institute, Tribeca Enterprises, and PBS.

What does it really take to build a sustainable community around experimental games? In this essential conversation, we sit down with Bria Davis, Community Director at Young Horses, to explore the intricate dynamics of gaming communities and what art-forward creators need to know before diving in.

Bria brings a unique perspective to community building, having worked her way from Discord moderator to leading community strategy for some of gaming's most innovative studios. Her journey through projects like the cultural phenomenon Blaseball offers invaluable insights for creators bridging art and gaming audiences.

Key insights for experimental game creators:

• Why fandom is like an ocean—beautiful but requiring respect and careful navigation
• The crucial differences between Discord and Twitch communities and how they serve different creative goals
• How "intimate publics" form around shared media consumption and why understanding this matters for your artistic vision
• Practical strategies for launching your first gaming community without losing creative control
• Why the loudest voices aren't always the ones worth listening to

Whether you're preparing for your first Steam release or cultivating an audience for your interactive art project, this conversation reveals how authentic community building can amplify your creative vision while maintaining artistic integrity.

Bria's expertise spans community health, cultural engagement, and the delicate balance between creative expression and audience development—making this a must-listen for any creator serious about finding their people in the gaming space.

This episode was hosted by Jamin Warren. Music was provided by Lusine.

Twofivesix is a strategic consultancy that helps artists and cultural organizations engage with gamers. Founder and CEO Jamin Warren speaks to experts at the intersection of game-based art and marketing to help you find your audience.

I'm shining the spotlight on Chris Norris, the exec from Electronic Arts who's dialing up the positive play in gaming communities. Chris is the Senior Director of Player Connection at EA.

I had a great conversation, treading the path of evolution of social interactions in video games - from the cozy comfort of couch co-op play to making friends in the far reaches of the globe. We also explored how game makers developers can inspire better behavior in players and debunk the widespread belief that gamers are antisocial.

Chris and I also delve into the exciting prospects of how using cues from physical spaces can create palpable experiences in the digital world. We're not just talking about games; we're talking about fostering positive social interactions in gaming spaces, and you're invited to join the conversation.

This episode was hosted by Jamin Warren. Music was provided by Lusine.

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Jamin Warren founded Gameplayarts, an advisory that helps museums and cultural organizations engage with the world of gaming. He provides them with the research, strategy, and execution they need to reach gamers for the first–or millionth–time. Gameplayarts’ past and present clients organizations like MoMA, the Getty Research Institute, Tribeca Enterprises, and PBS.

I spoke with Rebecca Mir, Director of Digital Product Management at Ad Council, about the inherent potential of technology, games, and digital media for creating social change; the differences between traditional marketing and PSA development; and how Guild Wars 2 proved to be the perfect place to Seize the Awkward.

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Jamin Warren founded Gameplayarts, an advisory that helps museums and cultural organizations engage with the world of gaming. He provides them with the research, strategy, and execution they need to reach gamers for the first–or millionth–time. Gameplayarts’ past and present clients organizations like MoMA, the Getty Research Institute, Tribeca Enterprises, and PBS.