In this International Women’s Day 2026 special, Carolyn Butler-Madden speaks with negotiation expert Sam Trattles about women in leadership, pay equity, professional development budgets, and the power of self-advocacy. Together they explore how conviction, craft and courage help leaders confidently ask for what they want — without damaging relationships — and why valuing yourself is a leadership responsibility, not an indulgence.

What if balancing the scales doesn’t begin with policy — but with permission?

In this International Women’s Day special, I’m joined by Sam Trattles — strategic negotiator, Founder and CEO of Other Side, and author of I Love Negotiating and Negotiate Your Worth.

With experience across more than $575 million in negotiations, Sam has built a uniquely Australian methodology called The Power To Ask — helping leaders bridge the gap between knowing and asking.

But this conversation isn’t about becoming aggressive or combative.

It’s about the long shadow of the “good girl” conditioning. It’s about the hidden cost of not asking. And it’s about why valuing yourself is not indulgent — it’s leadership.

Together, we explore:

• Why so many women were raised to be “seen and not heard” — and how that still shapes behaviour at senior levels
• The financial, psychological and relational cost of not asking
• Why simply “doing a good job” rarely results in recognition or reward
• The myth that negotiation equals conflict
• The surprising hesitation of senior women to ask for professional development budget
• And how to structure a confident, strategic ask without blowing up the relationship

Sam unpacks her 3Cs framework:

Conviction — Do I truly believe what I’m asking for is fair and reasonable? Craft — Have I prepared properly and understood the other perspective? Courage — Am I willing to have the conversation, knowing the outcome may be yes, no or maybe?

As Sam reminds us:

“We know what we want to ask. We just don’t know how to do it so that we don’t blow up the relationship.”

And perhaps most powerfully:

“What’s the cost of not asking? That’s got to be greater than asking.”

This episode is an invitation — not just to ask for more — but to model what self-advocacy looks like in leadership.

Because if we want to balance the scales, perhaps it begins with valuing ourselves — not as an act of ego, but as an act of leadership.

Sam Trattles CEO-Founder | Strategic Negotiator | Author | Speaker

Fear stops people from asking for what they want. Sam Trattles is changing that. She helps leaders overcome the hurdle between knowing and asking.

With experience from over $575M in negotiations, Sam created a uniquely Australian methodology, The Power to Ask, taking insights from high-stakes negotiations into practical frameworks for everyday leadership challenges.

Author of bestselling books, I Love Negotiating and Negotiate Your Worth, Sam helps leaders find their voice in the moments that matter. It’s not about becoming an aggressive ‘gun-slinger instead, Sam teaches people how to negotiate their way, getting results whilst strengthening relationships.

As Founder and CEO of Other Side, Sam transforms powerless moments into acts of conviction, inviting you to confidently embrace the power to ask.

Learn more at: thepowertoask.com

Sam on Linkedin

The Power To Ask Website

Take the Assessment

If this conversation resonated with you, I’d be so grateful if you left a rating — and, if you have a moment, a short review on your favourite podcast platform.

It genuinely makes a difference. Ratings and reviews help more purpose-driven leaders discover these conversations — and grow a community of people who believe business can be a force for good.

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What if the leadership talent businesses need most is hiding in plain sight? In this episode, I’m joined by Athena Manley, founder of The Flexible CEO, to explore a new leadership model connecting underutilised senior leaders with mid-sized organisations — and why reimagining leadership matters for people, performance and society.

EPISODE OVERVIEW

What happens when someone reaches the centre of corporate power — and decides the traditional leadership path no longer makes sense?

Athena is a strategist, advisor and entrepreneur whose career spans senior leadership roles across ASX-listed companies, Fortune 500 organisations and high-growth businesses. Just as she was being positioned for a CEO role, Athena paused to question the model itself — researching the personal, organisational and societal cost of how leadership is typically structured.

What she uncovered led her to create The Flexible CEO: a model designed to connect highly experienced, underutilised executives with mid-sized organisations that need senior capability but can’t always access it through traditional pathways.

At the heart of this work is a bridge — between boards of mid-sized organisations facing complex growth and transformation challenges, and what Athena calls “hidden superstars”: seasoned leaders whose talent is too often sidelined by outdated assumptions about age, career paths and leadership fit.

Athena shares the personal purpose driving this work — improving financial wellbeing and mental health — shaped by her own lived experience and what she witnessed growing up. We also explore the broader social impact of this model, including its potential to address ageism, unlock economic value and create healthier, more sustainable leadership outcomes.

In this conversation, Athena reflects on recent milestones — including speaking at Harvard and the United Nations, and the upcoming release of her book The Flexible CEO — and offers practical insights for leaders, boards and organisations curious about how this model could work for them.

This is a thoughtful, future-focused conversation about leadership — and what becomes possible when we design work around life, not sacrifice.

IN THIS EPISODE, WE EXPLORE:

• Why Athena chose to question the traditional CEO pathway — and what she found when she did
• The hidden cost of executive leadership on health, family and wellbeing
• How The Flexible CEO bridges the gap between organisations and “hidden superstar” leaders
• Age bias, the myth of being “overqualified,” and the talent we are wasting
• Portfolio careers, flexible leadership models and alternative CEO structures
• Why purpose isn’t powerful until it becomes personal
• What reimagining leadership could unlock for business, people and society

ABOUT ATHENA MANLEY

Athena Manley is a seasoned executive and owner of 3 companies. Across her 20+ year banking & insurance career, Athena has successfully led corporate strategy, distribution, IT, digital, people and culture, and business development in Fortune 500, ASX Top 10 and not-for-profit organisations.

Athena completed her MBA at UQ, being awarded the Excellence in Leadership Award, she is also a Harvard Alumnus and member of the AICD. Through her firm The Flexible CEO, Athena empowers businesses to navigate CEO transitions and CEO's and NEDs to transition to flexible portfolio careers. Her mission is to lead and inspire exceptional businesses that improve financial empowerment and mental health in society.

LINKS & RESOURCES

Athena on Linkedin

The Flexible CEO Website

Join the next ONLINE MASTERCLASS: Grow and succeed in a portfolio career- for CEOs, NEDs and Executives . Use code VIPCEO for free registration.

Episode Overview

What does it look like when a global brand doesn’t just talk about values — but organises around them?

In this episode of For Love & Money, I’m joined by Hilary McAllister, Activism Manager at Ben & Jerry’s Australia.

Hilary’s path into activism has been anything but linear. Beginning her career in events, she followed a growing concern for climate and environmental justice into grassroots campaigning, co-founding the not-for-profit For Wild Places before stepping into one of the most unusual roles in Australian business — leading activism from inside a global brand.

In our conversation, Hilary shares what drew her into purpose-led work, why serendipity and shared values matter more than rigid career plans, and how Ben & Jerry’s approaches climate justice as an always-on commitment rather than a one-off campaign.

We explore how activism operates inside the business, what it takes to earn the right to speak on social issues, and why progress is rarely linear — especially when you’re working for long-term systemic change.

Hilary also takes us behind the scenes of a major Australian climate campaign, unpacks Ben & Jerry’s mission-lock structure, and reflects on the balance between urgency, hope and personal sustainability when working at the frontlines of climate action.

At its heart, this episode is about purpose in action — and what becomes possible when business chooses courage over convenience.

In this episode, we explore

• Hilary’s non-linear journey into activism and purpose-led work
• Why love does have a role to play in business — depending on how you define success
• How Ben & Jerry’s embeds climate justice into its Australian strategy
• What “always-on activism” looks like inside a global brand
• Why progress in social and environmental change is rarely neat or predictable
• The importance of community, partnerships and earning the right to speak
• How individuals can connect everyday climate observations with meaningful action

About Hilary McAllister

Hilary is based in Gadigal, Sydney, and is the Activism Manager at Ben & Jerry’s Australia. In her role, Hilary leads the strategic development and execution of climate justice campaigns, supporting grassroots campaigners across the country. A dedicated environmentalist, Hilary is also the CEO and co-founder of For Wild Places, a not-for-profit dedicated to protecting wild places under threat. Hilary’s path to activism has been anything but ordinary - shaped by curiosity, conviction, and a deep desire to contribute to lasting, planet-saving change.

Links & Resources

Hilary McAllister on Linkedin

Ben & Jerry's Australia website

For Wild Places website

Hilary's personal website

Ben & Jerry's Double Dip book - how to run a values-led business and make money too

Connect with Carolyn/Learn more about her work

Speaking website

Consulting, Leadership Development & Coaching

Linkedin