Dina Saleh is the Regional Director of the Near East, North Africa, and Europe Division at the International Fund for Agricultural Development (IFAD) – the only specialized global development institution exclusively focused on rural transformation. With more than 20 years of international experience, Dina has spearheaded agriculture and rural development initiatives across Eastern Europe, the Middle East, North Africa, Sub-Saharan Africa, and Asia. She has also worked with both the private sector and international organizations like the UN, gaining a unique perspective on development across fragile and conflict-affected regions.

We begin our conversation by exploring Dina’s journey, starting with her early life in Yemen and Kenya, where agriculture was intrinsic to her formative years through her family’s business in agricultural trade and her schooling. This sparked her passion for rural development and gave her firsthand insights into how food systems work, ultimately leading to her current role at IFAD.

We then move on to the multifaceted challenges of working in fragile states like Somalia & Sudan, where conflict, climate change, and the lack of infrastructure severely hinder agricultural productivity. Dina discusses the delicate balance of working with both pastoralists and settled farmers, addressing conflicts over land and resources through innovative infrastructure solutions, as well as community-driven governance.

Our discussion also delves into gender dynamics in rural development. Dina shares a striking example from Sudan, where women were initially barred from engaging in agricultural development initiatives. Working with local leaders, IFAD was able to empower women to participate in economic activities like food processing and home-based production. These success stories underscore the importance of patience and sustained effort in achieving long-term development goals.

Tune in to hear more about the role of agriculture in poverty reduction and how organizations like IFAD are adapting their strategies to meet the complex and dynamic needs of fragile states!

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Dina Saleh

IFAD: https://www.ifad.org/en/w/people/dina-saleh

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Mihaela Carstei, Paul M. Bisca, and Johan Bjurman Bergman co-host F-World: The Fragility Podcast.

X: https://x.com/fworldpodcast

Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/fworldpodcast/

Website: https://f-world.org

Music: "Tornado" by Wintergatan. This track can be downloaded for free at www.wintergatan.net.

Video editing by: Alex Mitran - find Alex on Facebook (facebook.com/alexmmitran), X (x.com/alexmmitran), or LinkedIn (linkedin.com/in/alexmmitran)

EPISODE RESOURCES:

Updated approach to IFAD engagement in fragile situations https://www.ifad.org/en/w/publications/updated-approach-to-ifad-engagement-in-fragile-situations

TIMESTAMPS:

00:00:00 Intro

00:01:08 Dina’s story

00:03:19 Subsistence farming & the shift to commercialization

00:06:11 The roots of fragility in Yemen

00:08:35 Agriculture as a path to poverty reduction

00:12:19 Defining food systems

00:13:49 IFAD’s approach to nutrition in rural communities

00:16:18 What makes food systems fragile or resilient

00:18:12 Key trends in agriculture

00:20:00 What is IFAD?

00:23:26 IFAD in Somalia

00:28:44 Investment tools

00:31:18 IFAD’s financial instruments

00:33:15 How IFAD’s financing helps vulnerable populations

00:35:30 Role of technology in helping farmers

00:39:20 IFAD’s engagement in fragile contexts

00:45:20 Balancing crisis response & prevention

00:49:29 Measuring impact & results in fragile states

00:52:58 Working in conflict zones

00:56:15 Real-life challenges in fragile communities

00:59:45 Gender-specific challenges in rural development

01:03:30 Development misconceptions

01:08:19 Food self-sufficiency vs. trade

01:12:02 Fair trade & value for farmers

01:14:36 Water - food - energy nexus

01:18:05 Obstacles to coordination

01:20:15 Role of fertilizer

01:22:28 Hope for the future

01:25:27 Wrap-up

Philippe Vogeleer is a chartered director specialized in partnerships between companies, governments, and international organizations. Until March 2024 he was the Global Head of Corporate Business Development for Vodafone. Prior to joining Vodafone, Philippe held senior positions for Ooredoo, Orange, and Deloitte. He has lived in 10 countries and worked in more than 100. He holds a master’s degree in law, a master’s degree in media and communications, and an Executive MBA. Philippe now advises a small number of companies as Non-Executive Director and supports the work of international charities, including Global Citizen. He is also a Visiting Lecturer at INSEAD.

We start our conversation by learning about Philippe’s international background, his early interest in human development, and how he discovered the importance of mobile phones and satellite technology. We then take a stroll through the decades with Philippe highlighting the big business opportunities for the Information and Communications Technology (ICT) sector in each time period - from radio waves in the 1980s and 90s, to networks and services in the 2000s and 2010s. He also reminds us that most people don’t have a laptop, accessing digital tools only on mobile phones, and that today’s opportunity lies in bringing access to the devices.

We then shift to discussing how we can define the ICT sector and what we mean by digitalization. Also, we ask Philippe to help us understand what fragility looks like on the ground, from an ICT perspective, and how the ICT industry and digitalization can help counter fragility. This leads us to talk about what is needed to build a business case in fragile states or even in conflict areas, how you can engage external partners, and how to convince internal decision makers to take on the risk of investing under more difficult conditions. We also discuss the benefits of digitalization for governments, the main obstacles to closing the digital divide, and the role of AI in digitalization. We wrap up our conversation by considering the finite nature of money, how it can best catalyze digitalization, and the potential future for the ICT industry.

Watch or listen to the episode for so many more insights from Philippe Vogeleer!

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Philippe Vogeleer

philippe.vogeleer@globalpartners4digitaldevelopment.com

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/global-partners-for-digital-development

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Mihaela Carstei, Paul M. Bisca, and Johan Bjurman Bergman co-host F-World: The Fragility Podcast.

X: https://x.com/fworldpodcast

Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/fworldpodcast/

Website: https://f-world.org

Music: "Tornado" by Wintergatan. Many thanks to Wintergartan for allowing us to use their wonderful music! This track can be downloaded for free at www.wintergatan.net.

Video editing by: Alex Mitran - find Alex on Facebook (facebook.com/alexmmitran), X (x.com/alexmmitran), or LinkedIn (linkedin.com/in/alexmmitran)

TIMESTAMPS:

00:00:00 Introduction

00:02:11 Philippe’s background – people, places, ideas that charted his path

00:08:16 ICT’s big business opportunities through the decades

00:14:02 What is digitalization? What is the ICT sector?

00:18:13 What is fragility? What does it look like from an ICT perspective?

00:26:15 How can ICT and digitalization help counter fragility?

00:34:30 The business case for digitalization in fragile states and low-income countries

00:45:31 Digitalization benefits for governments

00:54:30 Obstacles to closing the digital divide

01:00:28 The role of AI in digitalization: risks or benefits

01:08:56 The finite nature of money & how to best catalyze digitalization

01:14:01 Potential future for the ICT industry

01:21:03 Wrap-up

Stefan Dercon is Professor of Economic Policy at Oxford University, where he also directs the Center for the Study of African Economics. The author of 5 books and many studies, Stefan has had a distinguished career as an academic and policy advisor on economic development. His accomplishments are many. To name just a few:  between 2011 and 2017, he was Chief Economist of the Department of International Development (DFID), the government department in charge with the UK’s aid policy and spending; between 2020-2022, he was the Development Policy Advisor to successive Foreign Secretaries at the UK’s Foreign, Commonwealth and Development Office.

Stefan is a virtuoso of development! His approach to our conversation was equal parts exciting and instructive, a style that also comes across in his writing, making his book very hard to put down.

We start by learning about Stefan: his experience growing up in Belgium, being taught by Catholic priests about African socialism, Ujamaa and Julius Nyerere, and Marx and discovering his interest in economics as a means of pursuing development. His early career in Tanzania and Ethiopia highlighted the relationship between risk and poverty and the need to consider uncertainty when engaging in policy advice or research. We then shift to talking about the four propositions that compete as diagnoses of core problems of poverty and development that Stefan outlines in his book: poor initial endowments, market failures that trap the poor in poverty, market failures that are costly for poor countries, weak institutions. He gives us an overview and tells us why the propositions fall short on explaining the successes and failures of development. We also talk about the most important trends in development in recent decades: the dramatic decrease in poverty globally, the Africanization of poverty, and the increasing concentration of poverty in fragile states.

The conversation then turns to the elites, what values drive them, and why would they gamble on a development bargain.  We talk about the role of natural resources, political systems, and how external actors can influence the emergence of development bargains. We also discuss the role of Western and Chinese elites in development bargains and what is good policy advice.

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Stefan Dercon

Website: https://www.bsg.ox.ac.uk/people/stefan-dercon

X: https://twitter.com/gamblingondev

LinkedIn: https://uk.linkedin.com/in/stefan-dercon-45927b104

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Mihaela Carstei, Paul M. Bisca, and Johan Bjurman Bergman co-host F-World: The Fragility Podcast. 

X: https://twitter.com/fworldpodcast

Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/fworldpodcast/

Website: https://f-world.org

Music: "Tornado" by Wintergatan. This track can be downloaded for free at www.wintergatan.net.

Video editing by: Alex Mitran - x.com/alexmmitran, linkedin.com/in/alexmmitran

EPISODE RESOURCES

Stefan Dercon, “Gambling on Development: Why some Countries Win and Others Lose,” Hurst, London, 2022. https://www.gamblingondevelopment.com

TIMESTAMPS:

00:00:00 Intro

00:01:24 Stefan’s background

00:02:49 Economics of poverty

00:04:16 Connection between risk & poverty

00:08:16 Brief overview of development thinking

00:14:57 Recent trends in development

00:19:55 The Africanization of poverty & What is fragility

00:25:39 The problem of fixed mental models of fragility

00:28:47 Who are the elites

00:41:11 The gambling in development bargains

00:47:24 What values drive the elites

00:54:25 Natural resource & political systems in dev. bargains

00:58:51 The role of Western & Chinese elites in dev. bargains

01:09:14 Are the elite bargains in the West still dev. bargains

01:19:09 Citizens’ role in dev. bargains

01:29:22 External actors & the emergence of dev. bargains

01:41:28 “Peace is ugly” – can international institutions accept it

01:51:20 Development is 50% history & 50% agency

02:00:40 Private sector role in the dev. bargain

02:09:48 What is good policy advice

02:19:56 Wrap-up