Our guest for this episode of College & Career Readiness Radio is Brian Johnson.

Brian explains why simply “placing kids” isn’t enough and why districts must define clear quality criteria so work-based learning experiences are aligned, mentored, and meaningful.

He shares the six basic characteristics he uses to vet opportunities: minimum hours, alignment to a student’s pathway of study, a professional mentor/supervisor, a real-world environment, student interest, and space for students to discover what they don’t want.

Brian describes his student intake process, where he learns about each student’s pathway, interests, dislikes, and dream organizations and uses that to co‑design potential placements.

He has students spend two weeks actively using their own networks—family, neighbors, community—to try to find a placement, teaching them that finding a job is a skill and giving them “skin in the game.”

Brian notes that 50–60% of students typically find their own placements, and then he steps in to formalize details with partners and ensure the experience meets district criteria.

He talks about preparing and coaching industry partners, including helping them understand the developmental realities of working with teenagers and why their feedback is so powerful.

Brian outlines a clear termination process: partners coach first, but if performance doesn’t improve, they are encouraged to end the placement just as they would in real life.

He emphasizes that termination should be a learning experience, not the end of the road, and he builds in a redemption process so students can reflect, get coaching, and try again.

In the redemption phase, students must fully own the search for their next experience, while Brian commits to supporting them (including making calls alongside them if they struggle to find something).

He explains how he creates “competitive opportunities” where students must apply and interview, even if there are enough slots, so they feel pressure, practice competing, and learn to handle rejection.

Brian shares how he uses “rejection therapy” and real examples (like a student losing an opportunity after signaling wrestling was a higher priority) to help students understand professional expectations.

He contrasts asking for unpaid favors from industry with offering a “menu” of ways to partner—career fairs, speaking in classes, mentoring, hosting interns, hybrid options—to make participation realistic.

Brian cautions that relying on philanthropy alone is not sustainable and urges coordinators to approach this work more like relationship‑based sales that respect a business’s needs and constraints.

He calls for advisory boards and partners who truly bring value and ideas to the table instead of just “checking the box” of attendance.

Brian explains why work-based learning must be part of a district’s DNA, not a last‑minute add‑on in 11th or 12th grade, and why culture and expectations have to be built over time.

He describes “curiosity fairs” for pre‑K–4, where students dress as what they want to be and meet real professionals from those fields, alongside more traditional career fairs in grades 5 and 7.

He emphasizes using parents and families as the first and strongest partner network in elementary schools, inviting them in as speakers and role models from all kinds of jobs.

He encourages schools to think less about hitting home runs and more about consistent exposure so students don’t reach senior year with no idea what they want to do.

Brian’s closing message is that educators should stop trying to control everything: they should own the systems and supports, but students must own their journeys, their effort, and their outcomes.

Our guest for this episode of College & Career Readiness Radio is Jan Jardine.

Jan Jardine explains how work-based learning helps students connect classroom learning with real-world careers through internships, apprenticeships, and CAPS-style industry projects, often revealing both what students love and what is not a good fit before they invest in postsecondary education.

She describes how CAPS programs “bring industry to students” by embedding them in professional environments where they work in teams on authentic client projects, practicing skills like communication, project management, and handling iterative feedback instead of just observing adults at work.

She emphasizes the importance of starting career-connected learning earlier, moving beyond a 9–12 or “just CTE” model by integrating projects and industry connections into middle school courses like College and Career Awareness and even elementary-level career exploration, so students do not “meander” through pathways without direction.

Jan also pushes for breaking down silos between core academics and CTE, sharing examples of engineering students who independently applied calculus to design a moving staircase prototype, illustrating how interdisciplinary, project-based work makes academic content meaningful.​

For rural and under-resourced communities, Jan urges educators to treat the school system itself as an industry partner—leveraging child nutrition, IT, transportation, HR, and other internal departments, as well as nearby community colleges, to create rich work-based learning experiences even where external employers are scarce.

She reflects on the 2025 ACTE CareerTech Vision conference (in New Orleans this year), noting growing national momentum: more conference sessions on rural innovation, younger grades, and postsecondary collaboration.

Jan highlights the upcoming National Work-Based Learning Conference in Rhode Island (April 29–May 1), where sessions will range from foundations for new coordinators to advanced topics for experienced leaders looking to “level up” their programs, with special attention to business partner engagement and rural models.

She also shares details about the ACTE-sponsored Leadership Alliance for Work-Based Learning, a new cohort for 10 practitioners that includes in-person learning at the conference, five virtual sessions, and a capstone project to be presented at the 2027 conference, designed to help leaders tackle real challenges in their own contexts.​

Her call to action for educators is simple but powerful: share your story—do not assume your work is “no big deal,” because when you consistently tell students’ success stories, communities, industry partners, and policymakers better understand the impact and begin to advocate for and invest in this work.

Our guest for this episode of College & Career Readiness Radio is Thomas Murray.

Tom Murray says that strong leadership is the foundation of any innovative, student‑centered district and that every major initiative will rise and fall with the quality of its leaders.​

Tom explains that the best leaders are learners who empower others, adapt, delegate to build capacity, engage their communities, reflect on their work, and ultimately lead as servants.​

He emphasizes that leadership is not about titles and that some of the most influential leaders in schools are classroom teachers, support staff, or bus drivers who care deeply, solve problems, and earn others’ trust.​

Murray points out that a healthy culture cannot coexist with toxic leadership and that every interaction in a school system is either building the culture up or tearing it down.​

Tom says that districts must be intentional about leadership development through coaching, mentoring, and clear pipelines for aspiring leaders, instead of expecting people to figure it out alone.​

He argues that “college and career readiness” must truly mean college and career, treating four‑year college as one important option among many pathways.​

Tom Murray notes that giving students access is not enough and that real success depends on creating a sense of belonging where students feel the space was designed with them in mind.​

He believes the ultimate purpose of pathways work is to ensure every student has enough exposure and support to graduate ready to live life on their own terms.​

Tom says that pathways work should start in elementary school so students can learn who they are as learners and see a wide range of careers beyond what they encounter at home.​

Murray shares that Future Ready Pathways offers free, research‑informed resources to help districts design pathways that expand access, opportunity, and belonging for all students.Tom Murray says that strong leadership is the foundation of any innovative, student‑centered district and that every major initiative will rise and fall with the quality of its leaders.​

Learn more at FutureReadyPathways.org.