In this episode of the Four Quarter Lives podcast, we revisit a conversation between Avivah Wittenberg Cox and Professor Herminia Ibarra of the London Business School. As we navigate the realities of career shifts, Herminia shares invaluable insights on why these transitions often take years, not months, and the importance of managing expectations during this journey. We confront the myth of discovering a “true self” and explore how identity is actually mutable, shaped through experimentation. Herminia guides us through the often “dark, messy middle” of career change — a period of confusion and uncertainty that paradoxically serves as a fertile ground for growth. We also discuss the significance of connecting with others in similar phases and practical steps to initiate change, such as reactivating dormant networks and embarking on side projects.

Herminia Ibarra is Charles Handy Professor of Organizational Behavior at London Business School. Prior to joining LBS, she served as Professor on the INSEAD and Harvard Business School faculties. An authority on leadership and career transition, Thinkers50 ranks Herminia among the top management thinkers in the world. She is a member of the World Economic Forum’s Expert Network, a judge for the Financial Times Business Book of the Year Award, a Fellow of the British Academy, the recipient of the Academy of Management’s Scholar-Practitioner Award for her research’s contribution to management practice, and Governor of the London Business School.

Herminia is the author of best-selling books, Act Like a Leader, Think Like a Leader and Working Identity: Unconventional Strategies for Reinventing Your Career. She writes regularly in leading academic journals and business publications including the Harvard Business Review, Financial Times, Wall Street Journal, and New York Times, is the author of numerous best-selling business case studies, and speaks internationally on leadership and organizational transformation. A native of Cuba, Herminia received her M.A. and Ph.D. from Yale University, where she was a National Science Fellow.

Some Useful Links:

* Herminia Ibarra’s book on career transitions: Working Identity: Unconventional Strategies for Reinventing Your Career

* Herminia’s website

* Harvard Business Review Article: Why Career Transition is So Hard

* Harvard Business Review Article: Reinventing Your Career – When It’s Not Just About You

* Harvard business Review Article: 5 Barriers to Career change – And How to Overcome Them

* London Business School website

This week on 4-Quarter Lives we re-publish a conversation between Avivah Wittenberg-Cox and James Root, Senior Partner at international consultancy Bain & Co and Chair of Bain Futures, which looks at future trends. Its report, Better With Age, The Rising Importance of Older Workers, is based on asking some 40,000 people, in 19 countries, a simple but fundamental question: ‘why do you go to work?’. The report identifies 6 archetypes that encompass the diversity of motivations that people bring to their work. James and Avivah discuss the relevance of work motivations for people in their 3rd quarter, and the significance of this for companies across the world as their workforces age.

Based in Hong Kong, James Root has 35 years consulting experience in Asia, North America and Europe. He is author of The Archetype Effect, offering a new way to understand what motivates people at work every day and why they feel how they feel about their job. James is the Former Leader of Bain & Co.’s Asia Pacific Organisation Practice; Former Managing Partner of Bain New York; and Former Chair of Bain’s Nominating Committee. He has written extensively in the business press, from Harvard Business Review to The Wall Street Journal, on topics of talent, China, international expansion and the firm of the future. He is a regular guest on TV and Radio, including CNN, CNBC and Bloomberg and Adjunct Professor on the faculty of HKUST since 2011, as well as a Fellow of Hughes Hall College, Cambridge University since 2021.

Some Useful Links:

* The Working Future report - https://www.bain.com/insights/the-working-future-more-human-not-less-future-of-work-report/

* Quiz - https://www.bain.com/insights/six-worker-archetypes-for-the-world-ahead-future-of-work-report-interactive/

* Better with Age: The Rising Importance of Older Workers - https://www.bain.com/insights/better-with-age-the-rising-importance-of-older-workers/

* The Working Women report - https://www.bain.com/insights/working-women-and-the-war-for-talent/

This week, as part of our series on Mapping the New Q3, we are re-publishing Avivah Wittenberg-Cox’s conversation from 2023 with Morag Lynagh, then Unilever’s Global Director of the Future of Work. As a major employer, Unilever is one of the first companies to recognise that people have different needs and expectations of work throughout their working lives. This led to the creation of U-Work within Unilever, a new employment model that is redefining how people relate to the world of work.

Morag is a graduate of Edinburgh University. She worked in the travel, property and conference industries before joining Unilever in 1994. Within the company she worked in HR business partnering, recruitment and reward, and spent more than a decade as Unilever’s UK Employment Policy & Law expert, leading teams in this area. In 2024 she left Unilever to establish Blue Moth Consulting, advising organisations more widely on effective talent management strategies across multi-generational workforces.

As one of the innovators behind U-Work at Unilever, Morag was responsible for rethinking the management of careers to reflect shifting needs at different life stages. In her conversation with Avivah Wittenberg-Cox they discuss what this means, as well as what leading companies are thinking about ageing societies – both from the consumer/ market side, as well as the internal/ employee side.

Some Useful Links:

* For Unilever web pages on U-Work and the future of work, click here

* For Unilever’s report on ‘The Future of Work’ Summit, click here.

* For Unilever’s Future of Work Goals, click here.

* Article by Avivah Wittenberg-Cox about U-Work: Flexibility for ALL: U-Work

* Website for Blue Moth Consulting: https://bluemothconsulting.com