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Author Gemma Hartley (Fed Up) joins Becky and Faith to talk about her new book, No One Loves an Angry Woman: An Exvangelical Coming-of-Rage Story. They dig into why tradwife content is so seductive, how self-blame keeps systems intact, raising kids after leaving the church, and the difference between anger and dysregulation.

In This Conversation

• 00:15 Welcome and introducing Gemma Hartley
• 04:33 Why are we so fascinated by tradwives?
• 09:48 Groomed to vote for Trump: how does anyone get out?
• 13:26 Self-blame and the “how could you?” thread of supremacist ideology
• 15:45 Victim blaming, self-blame as system protection, and capitalism’s individual solutions
• 18:00 Systems protect themselves by blaming the individual
• 20:36 Self-surveillance, conditioning, and why angry women are disruptive
• 24:43 Sending kids to the Bible camp Gemma attended and talking about sin
• 28:34 Jamaican vs. white evangelical spaces and living in “polluted water”
• 31:20 Public school, patriotism, and letting kids explore with a soft place to land
• 33:51 Who the book is for and seeing your conditioning with compassion
• 37:49 Anger vs. dysregulation, rage on the yoga mat, and anger as a teacher
• 41:21 How Fed Up connects: emotional labor and the capacity to feel anger
• 47:04 Loving angry women, placating, and proximity to whiteness
• 50:23 Where to find Gemma’s book

Resources Mentioned

• No One Loves an Angry Woman: An Exvangelical Coming-of-Rage Story by Gemma Hartley: https://link.amazon/B0bOv7oEn
• Fed Up: Emotional Labor, Women, and the Way Forward by Gemma Hartley: https://link.amazon/B06vGCwnY
• Little Women by Louisa May Alcott: https://link.amazon/B0aWMgBnn
• Song of the Lioness series by Tamora Pierce: https://link.amazon/B0fGUYVci
• The Famous Five and The Secret Seven by Enid Blyton: https://link.amazon/B0bho6IcY
• Yesteryear by Caro Claire Burke: https://link.amazon/B0af4sidu
• Trad Wife by Sarah Langan: https://link.amazon/B0fwS0nN9
• A Well-Trained Wife by Tia Levings: https://link.amazon/B09y3rz7X
• Momfluenced by Sara Petersen: https://link.amazon/B0fS0Zkor
• Faithfully Dissident Daughters: Reclaiming Christian Womanhood Beyond Patriarchy by Chelsea Kim Long: https://link.amazon/B00xTkfrN
• Stella Maris by Cormac McCarthy: https://link.amazon/B0hNn1Jwq
• I Didn't Want to be Angry from Faith’s Substack: https://faithwithlife.substack.com/p/i-didnt-want-to-be-angry
• Heart Full, Can't Breathe from Faith's Substack: https://faithwithlife.substack.com/p/heart-full-cant-breathe

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Get "Liberate Your Business" by Becky Mollenkamp at https://liberateyourbusiness.com/

FIND ALL OF OUR CONVERSATIONS AT https://yesandotherwise.com/

Actor, writer, producer, and Inclusion Rider co-author Fanshen Cox joins Becky and Faith to talk about representation in Hollywood, why individual-led and policy-led DEI efforts keep collapsing into lip service, and how she's returned to building community and centering storytellers through Sister Brunch and her production company, TruJuLo (Truth, Justice, Love).

In this conversation:

• 01:32 Movies that made us feel seen
• 07:19 Discovering the power of storytelling and the meaning behind the name "Fanshen"
• 10:44 Raising socially conscious kids: the burden, and the need to keep them safe
• 15:25 Black women's hair, personal choice, and not becoming the oppressor
• 22:26 Theater vs. film/TV acting and the power of casting directors
• 26:44 #OscarsSoWhite, going back for an MFA, and the one-woman show One Drop of Love
• 28:35 Matt Damon, Ben Affleck, Project Greenlight, and co-authoring the Inclusion Rider
• 32:12 Moving into development and writing DEIA policy at the California Film Commission
• 35:08 Empowering storytellers: Sister Brunch and TruJuLo
• 39:39 The Black Panther Party legacy, communal upbringing, and fear of retaliation
• 42:39 Capitalism, homeownership, and what happens when anyone gets too much power
• 46:52 Not canceling ourselves, and the limits of shaming
• 52:18 Hollywood as a system: finding agency and community
• 56:29 A decade after #OscarsSoWhite: backsliding on representation

Resources mentioned:

• Sista Brunch podcast: https://www.sistabrunch.com/
• TruJuLo Productions: https://www.trujulo.com/
• KweliTV: https://www.kweli.tv/
• "Fanshen" by William Hinton: https://link.amazon/B0cTyzF9y
• "We Will Not Cancel Us" by adrienne maree brown: https://link.amazon/B044X1c8X

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Get "Liberate Your Business" by Becky Mollenkamp at https://liberateyourbusiness.com/

FIND ALL OF OUR CONVERSATIONS AT https://YesAndOtherwise.com

Most boundary advice is about rules: what to say and where to draw the line. Trauma therapist turned boundary coach Judy Hu, author of "The Boundary Revolution," says that's the last step.

Becky and Faith talk with Judy about healing boundaries at the root, which means coming back to "same-size" with everyone else, treating discomfort as ancestral information, and asking whether what we call personality is really an adaptation to trauma.

They also cover raising teens in a culture that tells girls what they're worth, why safety in empire often just means survival, what the Cornell case shows about domination and moral injury, and how to hold people accountable without repeating the harm.

00:41 From trauma therapist to boundary coach, and seeing collective trauma everywhere
02:18 Icebreaker: favorite childhood TV shows
05:27 The story on repeat: teen daughters, unsupervised parties, and messages about worth
10:31 Judy's earliest memory: growing up in an immigrant family in a mostly white community
12:10 Encouraging defiance while keeping kids safe
18:50 Pleasing someone outside vs. inside; decolonization as reclaiming the body
21:09 Cornell, body sovereignty, and why this hurts in our bones
23:30 Healed boundaries: the felt circles and "same-sizedness"
30:11 Healing in community and reparenting the wounded child and adaptive teen
34:01 "I am the dream of my ancestors": healing backward and forward
37:19 Healed boundaries vs. boundary "rules"
42:18 Cornell as microcosm: empathy without excusing harm
47:01 Directing rage at the system; conflict as a path to authentic connection
50:18 Yes and Otherwise: asking for help and tolerating receiving it

Resources Mentioned
• The Boundary Revolution: Decolonize Your Relationships and Discover a New Path to Joy by Judy Hu (book and audiobook)
• Judy Hu: theboundaryrevolution.com
• My Grandmother's Hands by Resmaa Menakem
• Kinstead, an intentional community in the Hudson Valley, NY
• Nonviolent Communication (Marshall Rosenberg)

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