Episodes

  • Behind Rose's “APT.” and Lizzo's “About Damn Time”: Theron Thomas & Jeff “Gitty” Gitelman

    Behind Rose's “APT.” and Lizzo's “About Damn Time”: Theron Thomas & Jeff “Gitty” Gitelman
    11 Nov 2026
    How did a Korean drinking game become ROSÉ and Bruno Mars’ “APT.”, and why did Lizzo’s “About Damn Time” take months to get right? Grammy-winning songwriter Theron Thomas and producer Jeff “Gitty” Gitelman join Justin Tranter to share the stories behind those hits, Jessie Murph’s “Wild Ones,” and the four years Theron spent focused on a Rihanna album that never came out. They also explore why trusting your instincts, giving honest creative feedback, and helping artists discover their identity matter more than chasing a formula. CHAPTERS 00:00 The untold stories behind the hits00:34 Welcome to Unfamous07:18 Theron's first $5,000 song11:27 Gitty's first guitar20:15 The story behind “APT.”24:42 Jessie Murph's “Wild Ones”31:03 Why “About Damn Time” took months37:43 When to fight for a creative idea49:29 Four years focused on Rihanna54:28 Gag or Drag1:05:23 Why Theron studies songs he dislikes1:10:41 Building their own music company Subscribe to Unfamous with Justin Tranter for new conversations every Wednesday about the untold stories and creative collaborations behind the music and pop culture you love. CREDITS Unfamous is hosted by Justin Tranter Created by Justin Tranter & Morgan T. Stuart Produced by Justin Tranter & Morgan T. Stuart Written & Researched by Morgan T. Stuart Director: Morgan T. Stuart Co-Director + Cinematographer: Olivia McCrary Audio Engineer: Mike Sabri Camera Assistant: Kolbi Samantha Special thanks to Jimmy Knehans and Mark Beaven. Chat with the Unfamous team: https://tr.ee/76BBYT Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices
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    1 hr and 18 min
  • Are We Optimizing the Art Out of Music?

    Are We Optimizing the Art Out of Music?
    4 Nov 2026
    Does understanding what works make the art stronger, or can knowing too much flatten the feeling? In this Unfamous minisode, Grammy-nominated hit songwriter Justin Tranter and co-creator Morgan T. Stuart dig deeper into some of the debates sparked by clips from the show: song math, the first five seconds of a hit, TikTok, artist promotion and whether the pressure to optimize everything is changing the art itself. Justin explains why understanding melodic structure can make a great song more effective but can never manufacture the original idea, why naturally gifted songwriters often follow musical patterns without realizing it, and why grabbing someone’s attention is not the same thing as rushing a song. They also look at the business surrounding the art. Has TikTok actually made executives more willing to take creative risks? Should artists learn how their own marketing works before they lose access to the team doing it? And is today’s pressure to “make content” really that different from the resistance artists once had to making music videos? From the Gershwins and Patty Griffin to Madonna, Kurt Cobain and the modern pop machine, Justin and Morgan ask where structure and strategy can help, and where optimization has to stop. Chapters 0:00 Are We Optimizing the Art Out of Music? 1:14 Welcome to Unfamous 1:52 Why We’re Having This Conversation 3:38 CRAFT: Do the Rules Kill the Feeling? 6:08 The Subconscious Rules Behind Great Songs 7:54 Why a Great Chorus Can Still Feel Weak 9:46 ATTENTION: Does a Song Have to Win You in 5 Seconds? 10:59 Were Pop Songs Always This Short? 11:50 A Word From Rula 14:16 From Two-Minute Songs to Seven-Minute Songs 14:58 SOCIAL MEDIA: Has TikTok Made Big Creative Swings Safer? 17:22 PROMOTION: Hasn’t This Always Been Part of the Job? 18:47 Kurt Cobain, Madonna and “Making Content” 20:33 CREATIVITY: What Should Never Be Optimized? 21:57 Why Structure Still Matters 24:00 Why We Want to Make More of These Minisodes 24:44 Follow, Subscribe + See You Next Wednesday Credits Unfamous is hosted by Justin Tranter Created by Justin Tranter & Morgan T. Stuart Produced by Justin Tranter & Morgan T. Stuart Written & Researched by Morgan T. Stuart Director: Morgan T. Stuart Co-Director + Cinematographer: Olivia McCrary Audio Engineer: Mike Sabri Camera Assistant: Julia Gargano Special thanks to Mark Beavan and Jimmy Knehans. Chat with the Unfamous team: https://tr.ee/XMEBI7 Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices
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    25 min
  • The Temper Trap Tried to Recreate “Sweet Disposition.” Here’s What Happened.

    The Temper Trap Tried to Recreate “Sweet Disposition.” Here’s What Happened.
    28 Oct 2026
    “Sweet Disposition” started with someone practicing scales in a tiny rehearsal room. The music came together almost immediately. The lyrics were finished the next day. In this episode of Unfamous, The Temper Trap join Justin Tranter to break down how one of their most enduring songs was actually written — and what happened after something created almost entirely on instinct became the song everyone wanted them to recreate. They talk about reaching a point where, after nearly 15 years of writing, recording and touring, they were spent — creatively, relationally, all of it — and what happened after time apart gave them the opportunity to get back into a room together with no expectations. Within the first hour, they felt a spark again. The band also gets into what more than two decades of making music, stepping away and finding their way back to the collaboration has taught them about ego, compromise, resentment and trust, including the early “Temper Trap manifesto” that still shapes how they think about the work: it doesn’t matter who comes up with the part. It matters whether it’s the best part for the song. It’s a conversation about writing a great song — but even more about what it takes to return to a creative partnership with enough perspective to make something new. Chapters: 0:00 Preview: “Sweet Disposition,” Burnout & the Spark 0:38 Meet The Temper Trap 5:49 Why Being in a Band Is the Ultimate Collaboration 9:01 When a Song Keeps Refusing to Be Finished 9:53 How “Sweet Disposition” Was Written 14:38 Can You Recreate Your Biggest Hit? 16:59 When “Sweet Disposition” Found a New Generation 21:09 What Happens When a Band Runs Out of Fuel? 23:40 What Actually Brought The Temper Trap Back 26:25 How a Solo Song Became a Temper Trap Song 28:38 Compromise, Ego and the Creative Marriage 32:25 Serve the Song, Not Your Ego 33:38 The Temper Trap Manifesto 34:36 Does Great Art Need Conflict? 38:37 From Retail Jobs to Starting The Temper Trap 43:56 The 10-Hour Drives That Built the Band 46:44 The Songs That Made Them Want to Be Musicians 54:03 What They’d Tell Their Younger Selves 56:33 The Skill That Matters Beyond Talent Credits: Unfamous is hosted by Justin Tranter Created by Justin Tranter & Morgan T. Stuart Produced by Justin Tranter & Morgan T. Stuart Written & Researched by Morgan T. Stuart Director: Morgan T. Stuart Co-Director + Cinematographer: Olivia McCrary Audio Engineer: Mike Sabri Camera Assistant: Kolbi Samantha Special thanks to Mark Beavan, Jimmy Knehans, and Lily Golightly. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices
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    1 hr
  • Paul McCartney Took 100% of the Publishing. Here’s Why.

    Paul McCartney Took 100% of the Publishing. Here’s Why.
    21 Oct 2026
    Paul McCartney can love your version of his song and still take 100% of the publishing. So how does any of this actually work? In this Unfamous recap, co-creators Justin Tranter and Morgan Stuart revisit the biggest lessons from producer Bongo ByTheWay and songwriter/artist Ant Clemons, starting with Ant’s Paul McCartney story and a breakdown of the difference between samples and interpolations, when borrowing something familiar can increase a song’s chances of connecting, and when the publishing cost may no longer be worth it. Then the conversation gets into the less-visible mechanics behind great creative work: why producing is as much about managing personalities as operating a computer, how Justin uses who / what / where / when / why to map lyrics, the melodic math he used while writing Chappell Roan’s “Good Luck, Babe!” and Justin Bieber’s “Sorry,” and why Bongo and Ant believe artist development still matters, from songwriting and performance to having a creative identity strong enough to survive success. Chapters 0:00 Paul McCartney, Producer Psychology & the Rules Behind Hits0:42 Why the Behind-the-Scenes Creators Connected 1:52 Paul McCartney Took 100% of the Publishing 3:24 Sample vs. Interpolation: What You’re Actually Paying For 5:32 When Should You Kill an Interpolation? 7:46 The Producer’s Job Is Emotional, Too 11:58 The Song Map: Who, What, Where, When, Why 14:22 Why Structure Creates More Creative Freedom 15:22 The Melodic Math Behind “Good Luck, Babe!” and “Sorry” 19:26 What Music Is Missing: Artist Development 21:22 Singer-Songwriters Need Development Too 23:33 How Do You Prepare an Artist for Success? Credits Unfamous is hosted by Justin Tranter Created by Justin Tranter & Morgan T. Stuart Produced by Justin Tranter & Morgan T. Stuart Written & Researched by Morgan T. Stuart Director: Morgan T. Stuart Co-Director + Cinematographer: Olivia McCrary Audio Engineer: Mike Sabri Camera Assistant: Kolbi Samantha Special thanks to Mark Beavan, Jimmy Knehans, & Cory Jasin. Chat with the Unfamous team: https://tr.ee/jwPZ3j Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices
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    27 min
  • Why Great Creative Work Dies by Committee

    Why Great Creative Work Dies by Committee
    14 Oct 2026
    The best-looking photo can still be the wrong cover. And one bad compromise can turn a bold creative idea beige. The Hollywood Reporter’s Maer Roshan and Alison Edmond join Justin Tranter to reveal what actually happens behind some of Hollywood’s biggest covers—from Angelina Jolie asking them to redo an entire lighting setup after one shot, to orchestrating The White Lotus cast across two coasts and pulling together a Mikey Madison shoot the morning after her Oscar win. They break down how a cover goes from an idea to the final image, what happens when talent or publicists push back, why the most beautiful photograph doesn’t always serve the story, and why great creative work can fall apart when too many people get a vote. It’s a conversation about taste, trust, fighting for an idea, knowing when to defer to someone else’s expertise, and developing enough experience to stop second-guessing your own. CHAPTERS 0:00 Why the Best Photo Can Still Lose 1:16 Meet The Hollywood Reporter’s Maer Roshan & Alison Edmond 7:31 How a Hollywood Reporter Cover Actually Gets Made 11:08 Why the Most Beautiful Photo Isn’t Always the Right One 13:21 Photographing a Controversial Celebrity Story 17:07 Why Celebrities Care So Much About Their Image 18:03 Angelina Jolie Made Them Change the Entire Lighting Setup 19:44 What Happens When the Talent Has a Bad Idea? 23:15 How Do You Avoid a PR-Controlled Interview? 27:16 The Insane Logistics Behind The White Lotus Cover 30:11 Shooting Mikey Madison the Morning After Her Oscar Win 32:08 How Do You Create an Iconic Image in the iPhone Era? 37:05 The Most Common Way a Great Idea Gets Ruined 38:47 Why Creativity Dies by Committee 40:17 How to Fight for a Great Idea Without Killing the Collaboration 44:39 How Alison Edmond Learned to Stop Doubting Her Taste 49:31 Their First Jobs in the Magazine Business 52:09 How They Spot Talent Before Everyone Else Does 54:16 Why a Print Cover Still Means Something 56:08 “Don’t Be Stupid”: Alison’s Path to British Vogue 59:28 Growing Up With Censored Magazines in Iran 1:00:46 Why “Manifesting” Still Requires an Obscene Amount of Work 1:03:08 The Prince Harry Cover That Got a Letter From the Palace 1:04:38 How The Hollywood Reporter Balances Print, Digital & Social 1:09:01 Gag or Drag: Celebrity Creative Directors, Publicists & Bad Covers 1:14:14 The Career Advice They Wish They’d Learned Earlier CREDITS: Unfamous is hosted by Justin Tranter Created by Justin Tranter & Morgan T. Stuart Produced by Justin Tranter & Morgan T. Stuart Written & Researched by Morgan T. Stuart Director: Morgan T. Stuart Co-Director + Cinematographer: Olivia McCrary Audio Engineer: Mike Sabri Camera Assistant: Kolbi Samantha Special thanks to Mark Beavan, Jimmy Knehans, Luke Burland + 2BEntertainment. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices
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    1 hr and 19 min
  • The Lost Boys Was “The Hardest Thing We’ve Ever Done”: The Rescues on 60 Songs + Band Therapy

    The Lost Boys Was “The Hardest Thing We’ve Ever Done”: The Rescues on 60 Songs + Band Therapy
    7 Oct 2026
    The Rescues spent five years writing The Lost Boys for Broadway. They wrote nearly 60 songs, rewrote lyrics again and again, cut a song they loved after watching it stop the show cold in front of an audience, and reached a point where they had to ask whether they could keep working together after it was over. Justin Tranter reunites with Kyler England, AG and Gabriel Mann to break down what actually went into creating the musical, and what happens when three longtime collaborators with completely different ways of working take on the hardest project they’ve ever made together. They also trace the unlikely path that got them there, from forming for a $500 wedding gig and landing five Grey’s Anatomy placements to building separate creative careers before The Lost Boys unexpectedly brought them back together. Plus: why they needed “band therapy,” how they learned which creative battles actually mattered, why a great song still might need to be cut, and what five years of rewrites taught them about trust, ego and letting the audience tell you what isn’t working. Credits: Unfamous is hosted by Justin Tranter Created by Justin Tranter & Morgan T. Stuart Produced by Justin Tranter & Morgan T. Stuart Written & Researched by Morgan T. Stuart Director: Morgan T. Stuart Co-Director + Cinematographer: Olivia McCrary Audio Engineer: Mike Sabri Camera Assistant: Kolbi Samantha Special thanks to Mark Beavan, Jimmy Knehans, Wayne Wolfe, Hannah Wallace, and Nicolette Carcaldi. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices
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    1 hr and 24 min
  • When "Pushing Through" Stops Working: Rainbow Kitten Surprise on Reinvention

    When "Pushing Through" Stops Working: Rainbow Kitten Surprise on Reinvention
    30 Sep 2026
    What happens when pushing through stops making you stronger and starts getting in the way of the art? Justin Tranter sits down with Rainbow Kitten Surprise's lead singer/songwriter Ela Melo and her partner and movement director Cat Cogliandro to unpack how movement, trust and recovery changed the way Ela and the band perform. They trace “Devil Like Me” from a homemade recording built with cardboard-box stomp claps to its live reinvention, revisit the 2022 Red Rocks performance that forced Ela to confront how far she had pushed herself, and talk honestly about sobriety, creative conflict and knowing when to ask for help. It’s a conversation about building a better show, but also a more sustainable way to keep making art without buying into the idea that suffering is what makes an artist great. Credits: Unfamous is hosted by Justin Tranter Created by Justin Tranter & Morgan T. Stuart Produced by Justin Tranter & Morgan T. Stuart Written & Researched by Morgan T. Stuart Director: Morgan T. Stuart Co-Director + Cinematographer: Olivia McCrary Audio Engineer: Mike Sabri Camera Assistant: Kolbi Samantha Special thanks to Mark Beavan, Jimmy Knehans, Bailey Katler and 2BEntertainment. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices
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    58 min
  • Inside Pop Songwriting: Hits, Failure, Fear + What Actually Makes a Song Work

    Inside Pop Songwriting: Hits, Failure, Fear + What Actually Makes a Song Work
    23 Sep 2026
    What makes a great song when everyone is trying to reverse-engineer hits, virality and the “right” way to be an artist? Justin Tranter sits down with friends and collaborators Sasha Alex Sloan and Amelia Moore, two artist-songwriters whose careers keep proving that some of the best creative decisions are the ones that look wrong on paper. They unpack how an imperfect choice became one of the most memorable parts of Camila Cabello’s “Never Be the Same,” why the “too complicated” riff in Amelia’s “See Through” became a TikTok singing challenge and helped lead to her second record deal, and what getting dropped taught both of them about failure, freedom and trying again. Plus: writing for other artists, the very different mechanics of K-pop, how to say no without killing a writing session, and why neither industry rejection nor industry praise can tell you who you are. Credits: Unfamous is hosted by Justin Tranter Created by Justin Tranter & Morgan T. Stuart Produced by Justin Tranter & Morgan T. Stuart Written & Researched by Morgan T. Stuart Director: Morgan T. Stuart Co-Director + Cinematographer: Olivia McCrary Audio Engineer: Mike Sabri Camera Assistant: Kolbi Samantha Special thanks to Mark Beavan, Jimmy Knehans, Shaina Botwin, Sam French and Mady Davis. Download Cash App Today: https://click.cash.app/ui6m/w4mqomzg #CashAppPod Cash App is a financial services platform, not a bank. Banking services provided by Cash App’s bank partner(s). Prepaid debit cards issued by Sutton Bank, Member FDIC. Cash App Visa® Debit Flex Cards issued by Sutton Bank, Member FDIC, and The Bancorp Bank, N.A., pursuant to a license from Visa U.S.A. Inc. See terms and conditions for the Sutton prepaid card, Sutton debit flex card, and Bancorp debit flex card. Cash App Green features, Savings, Direct deposit, Round ups, Overdraft coverage and Discounts provided by Cash App, a Block, Inc. brand. Visit cash.app/legal/podcast for full disclosures. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices
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    1 hr and 29 min