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Episode 19 - What happens when you’ve followed Matthew 18 to the letter, talked to your pastor one-on-one, brought in two or three witnesses, and nothing changes? In part two of our conversation on denominations, Pastor Dan Cole, a Church of the Nazarene pastor and former district superintendent, joins us to talk about church accountability, when it’s time to “shake the dust off your feet,” and why a church with no real leadership structure can leave people with nowhere to turn.

From there, the conversation moves to one of the biggest questions in the modern church: why do we let the name over the door divide us? Pastor Dan shares how he went from “bleeding Nazarene” as a 21-year-old pastor to living by his mentor’s words: I’m a Nazarene, but I’m a Christian first. We talk about church competition, cute church names that hide their denominations, and the “restaurant with no food” problem, where churches gather every week but no one is getting saved, baptized, or discipled. We also get into why discipleship falls to the back burner as churches grow, and why good leaders have to set down their ego and delegate.

And yes, there’s plenty of laughter along the way, including “the OG still has it,” the dancing DS, and a grazing table that almost became a trough.

With roughly 45,000 to 49,000 Christian denominations worldwide, our conclusion is simple: Jesus comes first. Love God, love your neighbor.

Resources & References Mentioned

• Matthew 18:15–17 — Jesus’ steps for confronting sin and bringing it to the church
• Matthew 25:31–46 — Caring for “the least of these,” the heart behind our mercy mandate
• Matthew 28:19–20 — The Great Commission: go and make disciples
• Matthew 22:37–39 — The Great Commandment: love God, love your neighbor
• John 17:20–23 — Jesus’ prayer for unity among believers
• John 21:15–17 — “Feed my sheep”
• James 1:27 — Caring for orphans and widows
• Center for the Study of Global Christianity (Gordon-Conwell Theological Seminary) — source of the 45,000–49,000 global denominations estimate

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Does church structure really matter? And who holds church leadership accountable?

In Episode 18, Part 1 of The Conviction Exchange, Chandler Guion and Shawn Blades welcome special guest Pastor Dan Cole, who brings nearly five decades of ministry experience to a candid conversation about denominations, church leadership, and spiritual authority.

Drawing from his years as a pastor and district superintendent, Pastor Dan shares firsthand experiences that reveal both the importance of accountability and the challenges of leading within the church. Together, they explore the differences between denominational and non-denominational churches, the dangers of unchecked authority, and what happens when leadership loses sight of the people it's called to serve.

From difficult conversations behind closed doors to the biblical principles of conflict resolution, this episode challenges both pastors and congregations to consider what healthy, Christ-centered leadership should actually look like.

Because spiritual authority should never come without accountability.

Join us for Part 1 of this thought-provoking conversation on The Conviction Exchange.

Thanks for listening to The Conviction Exchange.

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Pre-Order Phyllis's new book "I Never Knew" at www.ineverknewbook.com

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Episode 17 - What if Noah’s Ark isn’t just a story about something that happened thousands of years ago—but a picture of how we’re supposed to live today?

In this episode of The Conviction Exchange, we go deep on Noah, obedience, the possibility of physical evidence for the Ark, and what it means when the world seems to be drowning in pride, confusion, sin, and self-interest.

But the conversation goes much further.

We talk about what it really means to love God and love your neighbor, whether we’re actually willing to step into someone else’s world and help them, and how easy it is to give ourselves an excuse instead of following our convictions.

We also take a hard look at modern Christianity—church hurt, spiritual immaturity, relying on pastors to do our studying for us, competition between churches, and the danger of living a surface-level faith instead of actually knowing God for ourselves.

And maybe the biggest question of the episode is this:

If the world around us is flooding with confusion, is your life built in a way that can actually help someone else survive it?

Noah was given very specific instructions to build the Ark. What if God is asking us to be just as intentional about building our lives?

Love God. Love people. Get in the Word. Stop living on the surface. And when the world is looking for somewhere safe to go, make sure your life points them back to Jesus.

Because everybody has an opinion—but not everybody has a conviction.

Thanks for listening to The Conviction Exchange.

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Pre-Order Phyllis's new book "I Never Knew" at www.ineverknewbook.com