Most hunters train hard. Very few train right. In this episode, Cliff sits down with Scott Johnston, co-author of Training for the Uphill Athlete and founder of Evoke Endurance, to break down why high-intensity training actually works against mountain hunters.

They unpack the biggest misconception in hunting fitness: trying to train exhaustion instead of capacity. Scott explains, in plain language, why endurance is a metabolic problem, not a grit problem, and why zone-2 aerobic development is the foundation for moving better, recovering faster, and shooting more accurately under fatigue.

They connect the dots between mountain hunting, special operations selection, and endurance sports, showing why aerobic capacity directly impacts decision-making, fine motor skills, recovery between stalks, and multi-day performance. Cliff ties it back to real guiding experiences with elk, goat, and sheep hunters who simply could not recover once they went anaerobic.

This is not about suffering more. It’s about building a system that actually works when it matters.

Evoke Endurance Backcountry Hunting Program: https://evokeendurance.com/training-plans/backcountry-hunting-training-plan/

TrainingPeaks Marketplace: https://www.trainingpeaks.com/training-plans/other/tp-611567/backcountry-hunting-training-plan

00:00:56 The fitness problem in hunting
00:02:00 Who Scott Johnston is
00:07:00 Why training transfers across sports
00:10:20 Fitness as the only controllable
00:18:30 Aerobic vs anaerobic systems
00:31:30 Aerobic deficiency explained
00:37:30 Time commitment realities
00:45:15 Why hill sprints fail hunters
00:52:00 Recovery and multi day hunts
01:11:00 Fitness impact on shooting accuracy

Resources from Scott and Evoke Endurance:
Evoke Endurance: https://evokeendurance.com/
Training For the Uphill Athlete: https://amzn.to/4qgQ1WQ

The Fastest Way to Get Good at Elk Hunting. Period. Cliff's In-Person Elk Masterclass - https://pursuitwithcliff.com/ElkCourse

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FOLLOW CLIFF
YouTube - https://www.youtube.com/c/CliffGray
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Facebook - https://facebook.com/PursuitWithCliff

Pursuit With Cliff Podcast
https://pursuitwithcliff.com/interviews-and-podcasts/

Cliff's Hunt Planning and Strategy Membership
https://pursuitwithcliff.com/membership/

Hunt. Fish. Spear. (Experiences, Courses and Seminars)
https://pursuitwithcliff.com/Experiences

Merch
https://pursuitwithcliff.com/shop/

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Most animals aren’t lost because of bad tracking — they’re lost because of bad decisions made in the first few minutes after the shot. In this podcast, Bob Terwilliger and Cliff Gray break down real-world animal recovery, blood trailing, and the ethics of finishing what you start.

The Fastest Way to Get Good at Elk Hunting. Period. Cliff's In-Person Elk Masterclass - https://pursuitwithcliff.com/ElkCourse

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FOLLOW CLIFF
YouTube - https://www.youtube.com/c/CliffGray
Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/Cliffgry/
Facebook - https://facebook.com/PursuitWithCliff

Pursuit With Cliff Podcast
https://pursuitwithcliff.com/interviews-and-podcasts/

Cliff's Hunt Planning and Strategy Membership
https://pursuitwithcliff.com/membership/

Hunt. Fish. Spear. (Experiences, Courses and Seminars)
https://pursuitwithcliff.com/Experiences

Merch
https://pursuitwithcliff.com/shop/

SUBSCRIBE TO CLIFF'S NEWSLETTER:
https://PursuitWithCliff.com/#Newsletter

In this episode, I sit down with Eric Wilson to break down one of the most common questions I get within the context of his recent successful hunt. DIY vs guided elk hunting.

Eric runs the podcast Do Not Go Quietly - https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/do-not-go-quietly-w-eric-wilson/id1675558101

Eric did a full DIY public land elk hunt last year. This season, he went guided. Same hunter, same mindset, completely different experience.

His first hunt was debriefed in this interview - https://youtu.be/SKwO7beqytI

We talk honestly about what changed. The learning curve. Shot opportunities. Elk behavior during the rut. Patience versus forcing moves. Why calling herd bulls is usually overrated. And how having a constant feedback loop with an experienced guide can accelerate your understanding of elk hunting in ways that years of solo hunts often can’t.

This is not a sales pitch for guided hunts. It’s a real conversation about expectations, decision making, ego, social pressure, and how hunters actually get better over time.

If you’re trying to decide whether to stay DIY, go guided, or mix both into your hunting life, this conversation will help you think clearly about what you want out of a hunt and how to get there faster.

The Fastest Way to Get Good at Elk Hunting. Period.

Cliff's In-Person Elk Masterclass - https://pursuitwithcliff.com/ElkCourse

---
FOLLOW CLIFF
YouTube - https://www.youtube.com/c/CliffGray
Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/Cliffgry/
Facebook - https://facebook.com/PursuitWithCliff

Pursuit With Cliff Podcast
https://pursuitwithcliff.com/interviews-and-podcasts/

Cliff's Hunt Planning and Strategy Membership
https://pursuitwithcliff.com/membership/

Hunt. Fish. Spear. (Experiences, Courses and Seminars)
https://pursuitwithcliff.com/Experiences

Merch
https://pursuitwithcliff.com/shop/

SUBSCRIBE TO CLIFF'S NEWSLETTER:
https://PursuitWithCliff.com/#Newsletter