Ferdinand Grapperhaus believes the future of real estate performance lies in using better data, AI and automation to make buildings more efficient, responsive and easier to operate.

In this episode, Ferdinand Grapperhaus, CEO and Co-Founder of NextSense, explains why collecting building data is only the beginning. NextSense combines structured building data, AI agents and building physics to help owners, occupiers and operators identify performance gaps, improve energy efficiency, reduce costs and maintain high levels of comfort across real estate portfolios.

The conversation explores the journey from analogue buildings to truly intelligent assets, and why many buildings already have the technology they need but still fail to perform as intended. Ferdinand discusses the challenges created by disconnected systems, fragmented data and overstretched facilities teams, and why dashboards alone are not enough. Instead, AI can analyse building performance continuously, identify issues, recommend interventions and increasingly take direct control of building settings.

The discussion also examines how AI can optimise heating, cooling, ventilation, thermal comfort and even blinds in real time. Ferdinand shares real-world examples including £250,000 in energy cost savings across ten assets and potential energy reductions of 10–15% through better control of blinds alone. He also explains why operational optimisation should often come before major retrofit decisions, allowing building data to inform where CapEx will have the greatest impact.

Episode Chapters:

00:00 - Ferdinand’s journey into real estate and the building energy challenge

04:47 - Entrepreneurship, innovation and the importance of focus

06:34 - What NextSense is and how it improves building performance

10:41 - The difference between analogue and smart-ready buildings

13:00 - Why building technology alone has not solved the performance problem

15:11 - Understanding the building performance gap

18:07 - Why AI is moving PropTech from a nice-to-have to a must-have

22:38 - Why high-quality building data is the foundation of AI

24:47 - Turning building data into energy conservation measures

26:22 - When AI moves from recommendations to direct control

27:31 - Adaptive thermal comfort and responding to changing weather

30:31 - What AI can actually control inside a building

32:22 - Real-world energy and cost savings from AI optimisation

35:40 - Why optimisation should come before major retrofit

38:12 - Designing new buildings for better long-term performance

41:19 - Understanding what occupiers really want from buildings

43:28 - How building performance can influence tenant demand

46:57 - The future of AI, offices and intelligent buildings

50:13 - Where Ferdinand finds inspiration

51:26 - The influence of Ayn Rand’s The Fountainhead

53:03 - Ferdinand’s favourite place and connection with nature

54:02 - Football, family and life outside work

About Ferdinand Grapperhaus:

Ferdinand Grapperhaus is CEO and Co-Founder of NextSense, a building intelligence company using AI, structured data and building physics to improve the performance of commercial real estate.

Originally trained as a physics engineer, Ferdinand has spent more than a decade developing technology focused on reducing energy consumption and improving how buildings operate.

Through NextSense, Ferdinand works with owners, occupiers and operators to turn building data into actionable insights and automated controls. The platform combines digital twins, AI agents and expert oversight to help buildings reduce energy use, improve comfort, lower costs and operate closer to their true performance potential.

Barry Jessop believes better real estate starts with understanding people, how they use spaces, how they feel within them and how those insights can create stronger, more resilient assets.

In this episode, Barry Jessop, Founder and Managing Director of Socius, explains why successful development should start with human behaviour rather than bricks and mortar. Drawing on almost three decades in real estate, Barry explores how observation, curiosity and a deeper understanding of how people use and feel within spaces can shape better buildings and places. He also explains why sustainability, social impact and commercial performance should not be treated as competing priorities, arguing that considering people, planet, reputation and stakeholders is fundamental to creating a robust long-term investment strategy.

The conversation explores Socius’ approach to large-scale mixed-use development and Barry’s belief that real estate has become too constrained by regulation, standardisation and a fear of creativity. He discusses why developments should respond to how people actually experience places, the importance of tracking changing consumer behaviour and why understanding how a space will operate is just as important as how it is designed. As Barry puts it, “space without operation is nothing” the real human experience comes from how a place works once people begin using it.

Throughout the episode, Barry challenges the traditional relationship between landlord and tenant. He argues that developers are no longer simply there to provide buildings; their role is increasingly to help occupiers become more successful, whether through productivity, wellbeing, amenities, talent attraction or sustainability. The future relationship, he believes, is less landlord and tenant and more business partnership, with developers increasingly accountable for the performance and experience their buildings enable.

Episode Chapters:

00:00 - Barry’s journey into real estate and discovering the impact of development

05:54 - Introducing Socius and its approach to mixed-use development

08:17 - Why Barry founded Socius and bringing new thinking into real estate

10:47 - Building B Corp principles into the foundations of the business

12:59 - Why sustainability and commercial returns should work together

15:17 - Have real estate developments lost their creativity and fun?

20:16 - Designing around people and understanding how spaces are actually used

26:52 - Why curiosity is one of the most important skills in development

29:47 - Looking outside real estate for better ideas and innovation

33:34 - Socius’ sustainability strategy: carbon, nature and social impact

35:37 - Bringing nature back into developments and urban environments

38:10 - Connecting biodiversity, communities and social value

42:37 - Nature, wellbeing and understanding the needs of occupiers

43:57 - Why developers should be helping their occupiers become more successful

46:23 - Barry’s inspirations, interests and approach to life

48:01 - The book that forced Barry to slow down

49:50 - What Brighton’s Lanes can teach us about successful urban places

About Barry Jessop:

Barry Jessop is Founder and Managing Director of Socius, a UK mixed-use developer focused on complex brownfield regeneration with a strong emphasis on environmental and social impact.

His career began with Lendlease before he went on to become Chief Executive of First Base and later founded Socius. Today, his approach combines human-centred design, sustainability and commercial performance to create places that work better for occupiers, investors and communities.

Jacob Sandelson believes the future of real estate depends on understanding people first, what they need from buildings, how they use them and how better operating models can create more resilient, valuable assets.

In this episode, Jacob Sandelson, Founder of Compound, explains why the traditional model of developing a building, securing a long lease and stepping away from its operation is becoming increasingly outdated. Instead, Compound combines high-quality real assets with what Jacob calls the “soft infrastructure” of people, systems, processes, technology and operations to create real estate platforms designed to perform over the long term.

The conversation explores Compound’s first platform, Comporter, a new approach to self-storage combining storage, workspace, amenities and highly considered design around the needs of individual users and small businesses. Jacob discusses why customer research sits at the centre of the model, how community engagement can become one of the most valuable forms of development due diligence, and why sustainability, social value and local economic impact should ultimately support commercial performance rather than sit separately from it.

The discussion also examines planning risk, institutional investment, operational real estate and why increasingly sophisticated investors are looking for diversified, resilient income rather than relying solely on long leases. Throughout the episode, Jacob shares a refreshingly simple philosophy: understand the customer, remain curious about people and translate those insights into better buildings, operations and investment decisions.

Episode Chapters:

00:00 - Jacob’s journey into real estate and the experiences that shaped his approach

05:02 - What Compound is and why Jacob builds real estate “platforms”

09:55 - Introducing Comporter and rethinking the self-storage model

14:33 - The lightbulb moment that revealed the opportunity in self-storage

16:28 - Designing around the user: storage, coworking and co-location

19:20 - Real estate’s two customers: occupiers and investors

22:40 - Why sustainability is fundamentally commercial

24:29 - Social value, SMEs and creating buildings that strengthen communities

27:55 - What listening to local communities can teach developers

31:06 - Why public consultation should be treated as development due diligence

33:21 - Raising capital, achieving scale and attracting institutional investors

35:42 - Planning risk and changing perceptions of self-storage

38:23 - Why institutional capital is moving towards operational real estate

40:16 - Where Jacob finds inspiration and the power of human interaction

41:18 - The books influencing Jacob’s thinking on systems, people and business

44:22 - Curiosity, communication and Jacob’s final advice for real estate leaders

About Jacob Sandelson:

Jacob Sandelson is Founder of Compound, a real estate investment and development business building operational real estate platforms in sectors where it sees strong long-term consumer and institutional demand.

Jacob began his career in residential development before moving into more operational and user-focused areas of real estate, including workspace. Those experiences shaped his belief that successful real estate must consider not only the physical building, but also how people experience, operate and interact with it.

Through Compound, Jacob has developed Comporter, a privately held self-storage platform focused on London and the South East. The portfolio comprises approximately 600,000 sq ft across seven new-build assets, combining self-storage with workspace, amenities, sustainability and locally responsive design. Compound’s approach brings together the “hard infrastructure” of high-quality buildings with the “soft infrastructure” of people, systems, processes and operations to create more resilient, user-led real estate.