About Our Guest

The Rev. Dr. Jacqui Lewis is an author, activist, preacher, and public theologian working toward an anti-racist, just, fully welcoming society in which everyone has enough. A 2025 Franklin D. Roosevelt Institute Freedom of Worship Laureate and a Democracy Fellow at the Public Religion Research Institute, Jacqui has served as Senior Minister of Middle Church in New York City since 2005. She is a frequent television commentator and the author of Fierce Love, The Just Love Story Bible, and 10 Essential Strategies for Becoming a Multiracial Congregation, among other books. Her podcast, Love, Period, is available wherever podcasts are found.

In This Episode

To kick off Season 4, Siobhan and Ben sit down with Jacqui, whose writing helped inspire our "Scandalous" miniseason. She shares her testimony, from a childhood steeped in Black church legacy to a formative reckoning at Princeton Seminary to pastoring "the church of her dreams."

Then the conversation turns to a love that is anything but passive: ferocious, rule-breaking, and strong enough to build a shelter for others. It might change how you hear the word "love."

Segments:

• Query of the Day: What's your favorite way to say thank you?
• Moment in Queer Christian History: The 40th anniversary of Middle Church's Jerriese Johnson Gospel Choir

Resources Mentioned

• Fierce Love: A Bold Path to Ferocious Courage and Rule-Breaking Kindness That Can Heal the World by Jacqui Lewis
• Freedom Rising Conference: freedomrisingconference.com
• Choir 40th Anniversary Concert: November 8 at 3:00 PM at Middle Church

Connect with Jacqui & Middle Church

• Instagram: @middlechurch and @revjacquilewis
• YouTube: @MiddleNYC
• TikTok: @middle.church
• Facebook: Middle Collegiate Church
• Website: www.middlechurch.org

More from Coming Out Christian

• Episode page: loveboldly.org/comingoutchristian
• Instagram: @comingoutchristian_podcast
• Need a transcript of this episode? Download it here: https://www.loveboldly.org/post/s4e1-rev-dr-jacqui-lewis

Enjoying the podcast? Support the work of LOVEboldly at loveboldly.org/donate.

Scandalous, Episode 4: Rev. Dr. Pauli Murray

Coming Out Christian's mini-season "Scandalous" continues as Siobhan Boyd-Nelson and the Rev. Dr. Ben Huelskamp welcome back Rev. Melinda Garza Moran to discuss a barrier-breaking figure whose story deserves far wider recognition: the Reverend Dr. Pauli Murray.

A lawyer, activist, poet, and priest, Murray graduated first in her class from Howard Law School, co-founded the National Organization for Women, and helped shape the legal arguments behind landmark civil rights and gender equality cases, work that influenced both Thurgood Marshall and Ruth Bader Ginsburg. At age 63, after decades of pioneering work in law and academia, Murray entered seminary and went on to become the first African American woman ordained as an Episcopal priest.

Melinda shares what drew her to Murray's story after watching a documentary on her life, and the group digs into what it meant for Murray to keep "causing good trouble" well into her seventies, the quiet strength of the aunt who raised her without judgment, and how Murray's justice work continued into the life of the church itself. The conversation also touches on the ongoing scholarly debate about which pronouns best honor Murray's gender-expansive identity (in these notes, we've followed the episode's lead in using she/her).

Learn more about Rev. Melinda Garza Moran and her ministry at Good Shepherd Lutheran Church in Kenwood, Ohio, at www.goodshepherd.com. You can also follow Rev. Melinda on social media @heysaints26 (Instagram, Threads, and Facebook).

Follow along at @comingoutchristian_podcast and @loveboldly, and find more at www.loveboldly.org.

Coming Out Christian's mini-season "Scandalous" continues as Siobhan Boyd-Nelson and the Rev. Dr. Ben Huelskamp welcome back Bishop Tim Wolfe, who is transitioning from his role as Midwest Regional Bishop into a new role as a Senior Bishop, to talk about a legendary figure from his own faith formation: Reverend Clarence H. Cobbs.

Known simply as "Preacher," Cobbs founded Chicago's First Church of Deliverance in 1929 at just 21 years old, building it into a spiritual and cultural landmark of Bronzeville with a pioneering radio broadcast, a 200-voice choir, and a congregation that grew to more than 10,000 members. Though rumors about his sexual orientation swirled for decades, even prompting a 1939 newspaper investigation, Cobbs never confirmed or denied the speculation, choosing instead to be known simply as a follower of Jesus.

Bishop Wolfe, who knew Rev. Cobbs personally as a young man finding his spiritual home at First Church, shares vivid, moving reflections on Preacher's radical hospitality, his unbothered response to gossip and scandal, and his gift for reading the Gospels "at face value." The conversation explores what it means to build a church rooted in genuine sanctification rather than respectability politics, and why refusing to let others' opinions dictate your calling is its own kind of holy defiance.

Learn more about First Church of Deliverance at fcdchicago.org, and about the Fellowship of Affirming Ministries at wearetfam.org. Follow Bishop Wolfe on Instagram @tgwolfe91159.

Follow along at @comingoutchristian_podcast and @loveboldly, and find more at www.loveboldly.org.