What happens when the title gets bigger, the stakes get higher and more people begin judging you by the outcome?

Michigan State head women’s basketball coach Robyn Fralick joins Davis Wells to talk about building a successful career without allowing the career to become your identity.

Robyn shares the journey from Davidson to assistant coaching, a formative decade at Ashland University, rebuilding Bowling Green and eventually returning to her hometown area to lead Michigan State.

Along the way, she explains why working for good people can be a career-changer, what Hall of Fame coach Sue Ramsey taught her about leadership, how different it is to run a program instead of simply coach, and why the people around a leader matter so much.

They also explore the Bowling Green turnaround from last place to first, lessons from USA Basketball, the isolation that can accompany leadership, life with her husband Tim and their family, coaching as a calling, faith, competition, patience and the difficult work of separating outcomes from identity.

Robyn puts the heart of the conversation simply:

“It’s what we do. It’s not who we are.”

Plus, Larry David vs. Ted Lasso, Caller ID word association, and a terrific answer about what 18-year-old Robyn might tell her today.

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Thanks for listening to Caller ID.

You can follow Caller ID wherever you listen to podcasts, and if you’re enjoying the show, a quick rating or review helps more people find it.

New episodes drop weekly, featuring conversations with people across disciplines who are thoughtful about their work and honest about the cost of doing it well.

I’m Brandon Davis Wells and thanks for answering the call.

When Success Isn’t Enough: My Call with Jerry Cowley

Jerry Cowley looked successful from the outside—moving up professionally, checking the boxes, and building a strong career. But as he shares in this conversation, outward success and inner fulfillment are not always the same thing.

In this episode, Jerry and I talk about career pivots, identity, ego, family, entrepreneurship, teaching, retirement, and what it means to build a life that is not defined only by work. From being recruited off a baseball field into the painting trade, to corporate life, education, coaching, and eventually building a successful business of his own, Jerry’s story is really about learning what matters most.

If you’ve ever felt the tension between doing well and actually feeling fulfilled, this conversation is for you.

Support the show

Thanks for listening to Caller ID.

You can follow Caller ID wherever you listen to podcasts, and if you’re enjoying the show, a quick rating or review helps more people find it.

New episodes drop weekly, featuring conversations with people across disciplines who are thoughtful about their work and honest about the cost of doing it well.

I’m Brandon Davis Wells and thanks for answering the call.

In this episode, I talk through how AI can be an asset, not a liability, when it comes to career. I have a few practical suggestions as to how to incorporate it to help us eliminate some of the thorns in our way.

Can AI help us to flourish in some way? I talk about Nick Bostrom's pendulum swing from Armageddon to Utopia in his books SuperIntelligence and Deep Utopia.

Support the show

Thanks for listening to Caller ID.

You can follow Caller ID wherever you listen to podcasts, and if you’re enjoying the show, a quick rating or review helps more people find it.

New episodes drop weekly, featuring conversations with people across disciplines who are thoughtful about their work and honest about the cost of doing it well.

I’m Brandon Davis Wells and thanks for answering the call.