In This Episode Of Business Lunch: Jimmy Buffett left a 275 million dollar trust, and now his widow and his longtime business manager are suing each other in two states while the legal bills run into the millions. Roland Frasier, who practiced estate law for about 12 years, and Ryan Deiss use that fight to make a case most advisors never make: the estate plan that saves the most tax is often the one that tears the family apart. They cover who actually needs complex trusts (almost nobody under 30 million dollars), what they each plan to leave their own kids, what should happen to the business, and the few simple moves that protect a family without giving anyone you love the right to sue anyone else you love. This is a conversation about what they do themselves, not legal advice.

Chapters:

0:00 Welcome back, Ryan Deiss, and a business that keeps running when life happens

1:58 Today's topic: structuring things for when you are not there

3:08 Jimmy Buffett's 275 million dollar trust fight and the James Brown estate

9:30 Under 30 million dollars, you do not need the complex structures

12:39 What Roland wants for his kids: education, a house, shared experiences, no control from the grave

16:41 Ryan Deiss on stewardship and deciding who gets what

21:04 Never create an estate plan that gives people you love standing to sue each other

24:29 Tell your kids to expect nothing, and spend on experiences while you are alive

27:33 What happens to the business, and do the kids have to be treated equally?

34:05 Two simple tools: 14 years to pay estate tax on a business, and life insurance trusts

36:30 Give your beneficiaries the right to remove the trustee

39:27 The one box on the estate tax return that can cost a surviving spouse 6 million dollars

42:23 Six figure trust setups on small estates, and the human side advisors miss

47:09 Recap: the three moves to make, and the question to ask every advisor

Listen to Business Lunch:

Apple Podcasts: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/business-lunch/id1442654104

Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/0iWSA89TaD263zhXETdSvZ

Follow Roland Frasier:

Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/rolandfrasier/

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/rolandfrasier/

TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@rolandfrasier

Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/RolandFrasierPage/

Everything else: https://msha.ke/rolandfrasier/

Follow Ryan Deiss:

Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/ryandeiss/

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/ryandeiss/

X: https://x.com/ryandeiss

Visit: https://www.scalable.co

In This Episode Of Business Lunch: We take on the FIRE movement, financial independence and retiring early, and ask the question most of its followers skip: what are you retiring to? They separate financial independence from retirement, walk through the 25 times rule and the 4 percent rule, explain the buckets of money approach that funds the future and the present at the same time, and share the stories behind their view that life is short and life is long, and you never know which one you get. It ends where every owner thinking about an exit should start: sell your business on a good day, and know what comes next before you go.

Chapters:

0:00 Cold open: the belief at the core of the FIRE movement

0:55 Welcome, and what retired actually means

2:42 Lean FIRE, fat FIRE, index funds, side hustles, and deferring big life events

5:13 Is working for someone else really the enemy?

6:04 Parents who missed their kids, and why deferring life is risky: 125 million dollars in bearer bonds

8:48 Waiting on kids, Lamborghinis, and the beach house that was a stretch

11:09 What to tell a young couple going all in on FIRE: support first, then buckets of money

14:52 All your eggs in one basket, in money and in time

16:03 Financial independence and retirement are two different things

18:23 The 25 times rule and the 4 percent rule

19:57 Not what you are retiring from, but what you are retiring to

23:10 Retiring from what you love, and selling your business on a good day

Listen to Business Lunch:

Apple Podcasts: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/business-lunch/id1442654104

Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/0iWSA89TaD263zhXETdSvZ

Follow Roland Frasier:

Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/rolandfrasier/

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/rolandfrasier/

TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@rolandfrasier

Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/RolandFrasierPage/

Everything else: https://msha.ke/rolandfrasier/

Follow Ryan Deiss:

Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/ryandeiss/

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/ryandeiss/

X: https://x.com/ryandeiss

Visit: https://www.scalable.co

Mentioned in this episode:

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Roland Frasier and Ryan Deiss tell the whole story of Traffic and Conversion Summit: a marketing event that started in 2009 with 289 people and no profit, grew to thousands of attendees, and sold to Clarion Events in 2018 at the highest multiple the buyer had ever paid for an event. Then they walk through what happened after the sale: the 80 percent rollover deal, the earn out, the put and call option that paid out zero after the pandemic, and why the corporate owners could not keep the soul of an event built by marketers for marketers. Real deal structure lessons from their own exit, including how to carve off the one asset a buyer actually wants and keep everything else.

0:00 Cold open: the vision behind the best event people ever attended
0:30 Welcome, a fire alarm night, and why Traffic and Conversion Summit is officially over
3:52 2009: 289 people, no profit, and a rule against pitch fests
6:24 Year three: the event becomes a business and launches DigitalMarketer
7:54 Sponsors, production value, and no more selling from stage
12:02 Clarion Events comes calling with a global vision
14:58 The event was a product line, not a company: thin slicing the deal
17:01 Air rights and bundles of sticks: sell only what the buyer wants
19:53 Deal structure: 80 percent sold, cash plus an earn out, the goose and eggs, the put and call
24:45 Having your cake: programming control, free booth space, the only offer from stage
26:34 How it all went wrong: the pandemic, a multiple of zero, bought out for nothing
34:52 Why TNC failed: the business model changed hands

Listen to Business Lunch:
Apple Podcasts: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/business-lunch/id1442654104
Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/0iWSA89TaD263zhXETdSvZ

Follow Roland Frasier:
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/rolandfrasier/
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/rolandfrasier/
TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@rolandfrasier
Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/RolandFrasierPage/
Everything else: https://msha.ke/rolandfrasier/

Follow Ryan Deiss:
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/ryandeiss/
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/ryandeiss/
X: https://x.com/ryandeiss

Visit: https://www.scalable.co