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Bricks and Clicks

Bricks and Clicks

By: Cliff Hudson and Craig Miller
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What does it really take to lead a legacy brand into the digital era—and keep it thriving in the era of AI? Why do some companies succeed, and others don't? Bricks and Clicks is a masterclass in modern business strategy, discplined execution, and transformational growth.

Hosted by Cliff Hudson, former CEO of Sonic Drive-In, and Craig Miller, veteran strategist and technology leader, this podcast goes inside the C-suite to explore how traditional businesses can evolve, innovate, and lead in a fast-changing, AI-driven world. Each episode features actionable, in-depth discussions with visionary executives, digital pioneers, and brand builders who are redefining what it means to serve customers in the age of disruption. From transformational leadership in legacy companies to digital strategy, operational reinvention, and customer-centric innovation in the era of AI, Bricks and Clicks offers candid, practical conversations packed with takeaways you can apply to your own business.

Whether you're in the boardroom, a member of the C-suite, part of the front-line leadership, or building a business from the ground up, join Cliff and Craig as they talk with the minds shaping the future of business—where physical and digital meet, and transformation becomes reality.

Bricks and Clicks is a production of Forbes Books.Forbes Books Economics Leadership Management Management & Leadership
Episodes
  • AI Guardrails without Gridlock with former Congressman Brad Carson

    AI Guardrails without Gridlock with former Congressman Brad Carson
    3 Sep 2026
    Go inside the C-Suite with former U.S. Congressman Brad Carson as he joins Cliff Hudson and Craig Miller on Bricks and Clicks for a timely conversation about artificial intelligence, business leadership, regulation, and the future of work.

    Brad is the president of Americans for Responsible Innovation, a bipartisan organization focused on AI policy and reasonable guardrails around emerging technology. In this episode, he explains why AI regulation doesn’t have to slow innovation, how smart guardrails can build consumer confidence, and why the public backlash against AI is becoming impossible for business leaders to ignore.

    Cliff, Craig, and Brad discuss what companies can learn from past regulatory models like the FAA, FDA, Federal Reserve, and nuclear oversight. They also explore how CEOs should think about AI inside their organizations, why AI strategy can’t be handed off to “the tech guy,” and how businesses can balance automation with the human experiences customers still value.

    Brad also breaks down the workforce implications of AI, including which jobs may change, why implementation is the real choke point, and how companies that adopt AI early may gain a major competitive advantage.This conversation is essential for CEOs, founders, executives, board members, policymakers, and business leaders trying to understand how AI will reshape organizations over the next five years.

    Chapters
    00:00 Welcome to Bricks and Clicks
    00:53 Introducing Brad Carson
    01:10 What Is Americans for Responsible Innovation?
    02:49 The AI Policy Landscape in Washington
    04:40 Can Regulation Help AI Adoption?
    06:28 Where the AI Debate Got Off Track
    08:15 AI, Populism, and the New Gilded Age
    10:56 Why AI Regulation Is Becoming Bipartisan
    12:32 Lessons from Past Technology Shifts
    13:12 What AI Can Learn from the FAA, FDA, and Nuclear Regulation
    16:49 What the Public Misunderstands About AI
    17:30 Data Centers, Energy, and AI’s Environmental Debate
    19:37 How Businesses Are Underestimating AI
    21:22 How AI Helps Small Businesses Compete
    22:46 Where CEOs Should Begin with AI
    24:36 Why AI Strategy Has to Start at the Top
    25:56 Rethinking the Operating Model
    28:36 Reshaping vs. Replacing Jobs
    31:49 The Implementation Gap
    33:18 What Will Separate AI Winners from Losers
    34:30 Robotics, Automation, and Customer Experience
    36:25 What Should Businesses Automate?
    38:23 Where to Learn More About ARI
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    39 min
  • A Universal Playbook for Brand-Building in the 21st Century

    A Universal Playbook for Brand-Building in the 21st Century
    2 Dec 2025
    Former Sonic CEO Cliff Hudson and tech executive Craig Miller (ex-CIO, Planet Fitness & Sonic) distills five critical takeaways from their series on integrating technology with brand strategy. They argue that genuine customer value creation – driving top-line growth and operator profit – is non-negotiable in the 21st century. Drawing on Sonic’s transformation (from $1B to $5.5B+ in sales fueled by innovations like mobile order/pay), they reveal why technology must be woven into the customer experience, not bolted on. The duo tackles the universal challenge of "messy middles" in complex implementations and emphasizes that their strategic framework – starting with the customer, not the tech – applies across industries. Miller also demystifies AI ("augmented intelligence"), linking it to predictive tools they pioneered at Sonic. Essential listening for leaders navigating digital transformation.
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    33 min
  • The Messy Middles: Navigating the Organizational Conflict of Digital Transformation

    The Messy Middles: Navigating the Organizational Conflict of Digital Transformation
    18 Nov 2025
    When legacy brands pivot to digital, the path is rarely linear. In this candid discussion, Sonic Drive-In’s former CEO Cliff Hudson and executives Craig Miller and Eddie Saroch dissect the turbulent rollout of their 21st-century "Integrated Customer Engagement" (ICE) strategy—a web of interdependent tech initiatives from POS systems to mobile apps and data-driven marketing. Hudson reveals how Sonic’s 20th-century "parallel initiatives" model collided with the complexity of integrated systems, triggering what Harvard’s Professor Cantor calls the "messy middle": stakeholder misalignment, operational friction, and fading buy-in. Miller unpacks the ICE framework—Sonic’s "21st-century ice"—while Saroch details the gritty franchisee negotiations required to centralize media spending and deploy foundational tech.

    Key takeaways: Why digital overhauls demand unprecedented collaboration, how to sell long-term ROI to skeptical operators, and why acknowledging organizational conflict isn’t failure—it’s strategy. A masterclass in scaling change when every piece depends on the next.
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    31 min
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