X&O co-founders Brett Banker and Eric Segal play a game of overrated or underrated, dishing on the holding company vs. independents debate, spec work, content creators and more. Check out Ad Age's full conversation with the duo in the first episode of Agencies on Record, a new quarterly podcast from Ad Age.

Don't miss the full conversation with Brett Banker and Eric Sega

Develop the strategic idea, then step back—the client can take it in-house, hand it to another agency or bring X&O back to build it themselves. That's the split that co-founders Brett Banker and Eric Segal say powers their sprint model: five-to-six-day timelines, a top-to-top rule that puts C-level talent in the room from day one and a hard "no" on pitching for free, even against a strong prospect.

In Agencies on Record, Ad Age's new quarterly podcast, the pair also break down how their model scales into more complex categories, including an eight-week version built for healthcare's regulatory hurdles. Banker and Segal explain why they've stayed deliberately small—capping the agency at roughly 50 people—even as revenue climbed from $4.2 million in 2024 to more than $8 million in 2025, driven by fixed-fee project work with clients including Coca-Cola and Verizon and talent like Heated Rivalry's Connor Storrie.

The duo weigh in on Dentsu's move into the sprint space with its relaunched 360i unit, the challenges of maintaining focus inside a holding company, and why they've trademarked their own answer to the traditional agency-of-record model: what they call "answers on repeat." They also explain their hard line against speculative pitching, even when a prospective client all but promises the win.

Dig deeper

~Read the Small Agency Playbook

~Why agencies are adopting sprint models and how they work

~How small agencies choose the right pitches—and prepare to win

~Agency reviews in 2030—24 leaders predict what the marketing pitch process will look like

~CMO Survival Guide: What CMOs want from agencies—3 ways to improve relations

Watch this episode and see additional resources for marketers at AdAge.com/cmo.

In the first episode of the Ad Age CMOs on CMOs series, Andrea Collins, CMO of Hippo, and Liz Vanzura, CMO of Solo Stove, break down how they're implementing AI into team workflows, and how marketers can start discussing AI implementation with teams mindfully. They also dig into grassroots marketing tactics and the power of bringing your brand to consumers.

CMOs on CMOs is a new series from Ad Age. Each episode will feature two marketing leaders, discussing the trends, changes and trials of their work. Stay tuned for more episodes in the coming months.